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Discussion Starter #1
I feel like the mopar ship is sinking in the horsepower race with gm and ford.The new ford boss 302 440 hp.z28 camaro, 557 hp,mach one mustang due soon,shelby gt350 due soon.The hemi nameplates will soon disappear on all mopar vehicles and theres talk of removing hemi logo from the valve covers.This is to appear greener to the government while the competition is in a horsepower war.The new 6.4 -450-480hp is a joke,why waste the time.The new engine should have been a 7.0-426-with a aluminum block and 550 hp.I feel the challenger is the best looking car of the bunch but is losing the war by leaps and bounds.Ford and Gm are in a dealth struggle while mopar is just a afterthought.Srt10 challenger would be a good idea but Fiat only has small cars on its mind.
 

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Vaguely badass...
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For those that only buy a car based on HP numbers, this could be an issue.

For those that buy a car as an entire package, not so much.

Even less for those of us that don't have a need to show off - or justify ourselves somehow - with HP numbers.

Although I suppose those Mustang and Camaro guys can get to the liquor store to buy their beer that much faster.
 

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Roger, do you ever read anything here at AllPar or just post questions with suspect editorial content?

Why not a 9.6 with a aluminum block or 10.4 with a aluminum block?
Fiat only has small cars on its mind.
Ferrari, Maserati
 

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Vaguely badass...
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Sure they have small cars in their minds - it's part of the deal to increase their stake as part of the bailout deal - that's nothing new.
 

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Being the top dog in a part of the market that is perhaps less important than others doesn't seem to mean much.

The bar continually gets set and reset. For all we know, the 'next big thing' is waiting in the wings in the halls of Chrysler.

I'd be more happy to see the new V6 match Ford's 300+HP and 30MPG in the Mustang that to see a bigger number on the HEMI just to play that marketing game.

Tell us, Roger - what should Mopar be doing - in your opinion - to combat this assault from Ford and Chevy?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Being the top dog in a part of the market that is perhaps less important than others doesn't seem to mean much.

The bar continually gets set and reset. For all we know, the 'next big thing' is waiting in the wings in the halls of Chrysler.

I'd be more happy to see the new V6 match Ford's 300+HP and 30MPG in the Mustang that to see a bigger number on the HEMI just to play that marketing game.

Tell us, Roger - what should Mopar be doing - in your opinion - to combat this assault from Ford and Chevy?
 

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Perception is everything.It took a while but Ford finally saw the light and brought back the 5.0.Gm is bringing back the Z28 and Ford the Boss 302.Its part of their history and past glory.Mopar should bring back the 426-7.0 -generation 3 version.Its not just about horsepower but past glory and legacy-heritage.Horsepower is what people talk about,get magazine coverage-a buzz in the car world.Some of the mopar commercials are going back to past muscle car eras,which is about time.The past can lead to the future-like Fords Boss 302.I get tired of going to the track and seing the camaros and mustangs kicking the Challenger and the magazines always trashing the mopar.Mopar should step up and offer a supercharger option or a viper engine option,not just for horespower but for image and future heritage.Mopar needs to act soon or be forever be a afterthought in the car world.
 

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Are we talking about Dodge and Chrysler or Mopar? For this subject the proper context is everything at the moment.
 
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I have to agree with Roger. I have a 2010 300C and I'm a little disappointed in the performance. I also have a 2011 Mustang GT with th 5.0. Of course the Mustang is faster, as it should be. However, the 300 has 360hp and 385 lb/ft of torque and is nothing to sneeze at.....on paper. It just doesn't seem like it is anywhere near these numbers. Additionally, the technology of the Ford engine is much advanced compared to the Hemi. I'm not knocking Chrysler or the Hemi, it just seems like they are behind. And with the state of the company, they can't afford to be as far behind the competition as they are. This applies to the whole product line.
 

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I have to agree with Roger. I have a 2010 300C and I'm a little disappointed in the performance. I also have a 2011 Mustang GT with th 5.0. Of course the Mustang is faster, as it should be. However, the 300 has 360hp and 385 lb/ft of torque and is nothing to sneeze at.....on paper. It just doesn't seem like it is anywhere near these numbers. Additionally, the technology of the Ford engine is much advanced compared to the Hemi. I'm not knocking Chrysler or the Hemi, it just seems like they are behind. And with the state of the company, they can't afford to be as far behind the competition as they are. This applies to the whole product line.
I also have a 2011 Mustang GT (5.0) and had a 2009 Challenger. The Challenger is an awesome car with great looks, but just doesn't have the power/handling that it should, IMHO. But looking at Chrysler compared to Ford, anyway, their hands are pretty much tied and do not have the resources of FoMoCo. Their (Chrysler) main goal right now is to find a good bread and butter car that will keep them going into the future. We all would like to relive the glory days of Mopar vs. GM vs. FoMoCo and it's too bad Mopar cannot do more in the HP wars. HP, I think, is an after-thought when their main goal is to simply stay in business. Who can fault them for that.
 
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I feel like the mopar ship is sinking in the horsepower race with gm and ford.The new ford boss 302 440 hp.z28 camaro, 557 hp,mach one mustang due soon,shelby gt350 due soon.The hemi nameplates will soon disappear on all mopar vehicles and theres talk of removing hemi logo from the valve covers.This is to appear greener to the government while the competition is in a horsepower war.The new 6.4 -450-480hp is a joke,why waste the time.The new engine should have been a 7.0-426-with a aluminum block and 550 hp.I feel the challenger is the best looking car of the bunch but is losing the war by leaps and bounds.Ford and Gm are in a dealth struggle while mopar is just a afterthought.Srt10 challenger would be a good idea but Fiat only has small cars on its mind.

I have to agree 100% with Roger. I am brand spanking new here and came with a dilema. I am at a pivotal point in my life right now. I just got the OK from houshold 6 (my wife), that I could go ahead and purchase a new muscle car. I was going to get an original muscle car, but decided that it is better fitting that I get one from my very own "muscle car era" . With that said now is the time to buy, and I am left with one shucks of a choice. I have been scowering over articles, forums, and reviews trying to find "what suits me". I have a choice of the new Z28, the awesome GT500, and now the 392 Hemi. I often picture myself driving one of these beauties down the BLVD with a grin from ear to ear. I LOVE the styling/build of the Challenger, and in a heartbeat would purchase this fine automobile if it were but for one small issue. The pure raw power that this baby can provide me. I can go ahead and get a beautiful car from pretty much any of the automakers, but I am looking for the COMPLETE package. The "crem de le crem" so to speak. After all it will not be everyday that houshold 6 is going to let me do this, so I know it has to be THE ONE. I have been reading about the past here on allpar and here is a quote from the people section titled "Making Chrysler into a performance machine – again" "The story is that Mr. Townsend polled his own children, as well as the dealer network, and heard that performance was important" (smart Mr. Townsend) "Plymouth and Dodge set record after record on the drag strip with the 413 engine, culminating with the 11.93 second pass and 118 mile an hour national win by the Melrose Missile, a stock 413 Super Stock Plymouth". The way I see it is that Dodge would not be here if it wer'nt for the HP. Who could honestly say that Dodge would even be in existance if it wer'nt for the HP? No its not all about the HP, but it is about the Complete package, and a big part of it. I need to know that when the time comes and the light turns green I can count on my trusty steed to pull me through. I am awating on the 392 to see what it can do. I am begging/pleading that it will perform to the standards once sought fit of the Dodge Name during the first muscle car era. I yern to become a MOPAR guy, but I will not do so for the wrong reasons. They have to sell this buyer the legacy that a true MOPAR guy would'nt settle for seconds best. Thank You
 

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You can read all the articles and forum posts and blogs in the world. The only person that can tell you that something is the "total package" that you are looking for, is YOU.

On paper, Dodge could proclaim that the new 392 has the power to pull the stars across the sky, that the interior is finished with metal accents hand-forged and polished by the druids of an isle off the coast of North Mirtentwerp, and that the handling is like you are on rails - until, of course, you decide to pull a Hubinette and drift around that curve in a slow-motion blur of power and grace. All of that means nothing if you get in the car and find out that the seats don't quite fit you right, or the controls don't fall to where you expect them to be, or you feel that the power just isn't there.

Not much is worse than buying something based on the marketing alone, and then realizing that it's not what you expected - or wanted - at all.
 

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Well said.
The reviewers did say that the Challenger would be preferred over the others on a long trip for comfort. It is a heavier/slower car than the Mustang.
I drove a 300C SRT-8 and found it to be the best of all worlds...to me. It was fast enough where my legs were shaking when I stepped out of it. It was comfortable enough where it could be my everyday-use car.
Even in the 'King of the Hill' comparisons there were no clear-cut winners or losers, it all depended on what you were looking for, personally in the Detroit flagships.
Not saying that Horsepower isn't an important measurement. It is the most important number for some. Class and dynamics for others, etc.
 
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You can read all the articles and forum posts and blogs in the world. The only person that can tell you that something is the "total package" that you are looking for, is YOU.

On paper, Dodge could proclaim that the new 392 has the power to pull the stars across the sky, that the interior is finished with metal accents hand-forged and polished by the druids of an isle off the coast of North Mirtentwerp, and that the handling is like you are on rails - until, of course, you decide to pull a Hubinette and drift around that curve in a slow-motion blur of power and grace. All of that means nothing if you get in the car and find out that the seats don't quite fit you right, or the controls don't fall to where you expect them to be, or you feel that the power just isn't there.

Not much is worse than buying something based on the marketing alone, and then realizing that it's not what you expected - or wanted - at all.

I could not agree with you more Stratuscaster. Rest assured that in my attempt to find my Xcalibur I will put these trophies of the era to the test. I will sit where druids forged, and pull from the ends of the galaxy to find my queen. I feel that what Roger was saying was about the history and present alike. WE ARE IN A NEW MUSCLE CAR ERA...That alone speaks for such a truly great time in automotive history. We should expect what is expected for such an era. We should expect the best from the automakers we adore, and the best alone. MOPAR proved its point without a shadow of a doubt in the late 60s and the early 70s that it was king, and now more then ever I feel it owes its constituants the same.
 

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Think about your needs and how you will use the car then test drive the new Z28, the GT500 and the 392 Hemi. To buy one without driving each is foolish.

Come back and let us know if you buy the Challenger.
 
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Yes I will test drive every car before making my choice. All I am saying is Roger is right. Chrysler has to lowest horsepower. Numbers do not lie. Roger you win.......
 

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What this was a race where HP is the only factor? Then, you're right.

Otherwise it's totally a matter of personal perspective and preference. Regardless of HP if I were to (but I'm not) purchase one of the three 'retro' cars it would be the Challenger. Not because of HP but because of the overall package. The Camaro is ugly, and the Mustang is..... well it's a Ford.

I'm just saying.
 

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Roger thinks car companies are run by the Tooth Fairy and compares supercharged cars to NA ones. Roger might want to read a bit on how the auto industry works and how much time it takes to manufacture and certify things.
 

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Roger that Challenger. I guess he didn't see this one.



http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/challenger/SMS.html

Sure not factory but neither are some of those 'special' Rustangs.
 
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