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Toyota and Honda Offices are in SoCal not 8 miles apart. Isuzu used to be (perhaps still are) inland another 15 miles in SoCal - but I lost track of Isuzu when I moved out of California.

I can't put my finger on it for this post, but rumor has it that Honda wants to try NASCAR.

How these things relate is that the overseas nameplates are working their way into what used to be domestic mainstay venues - not least of which is NASCAR; but they're using some race series' as open doors. Perhaps if the NHRA Biggies are set to minimize or leave these areas the overseas nameplates might see that as opportunities to further their cause. And as we have already noted the presence in the marketplace is undeniably strong.

I'm old enough to remember that the largest engine you could find in a Japanese automobile which was available in limited quantities here in the States was a 2.0L I4 . Most of their cars were 1.6L I4 (and smaller). Now, Toyota TRD fields a 5.7L V8 possibly arising from what some (I count myself among them) believe to be 'heavily influenced' by Chrysler's 5.7L V8 ... billdavis ... but how that happened I'll never be certain; or if it actually happened.
 

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dana44 said:
I'm with Norm on this one. America as a nation is moving in the wrong direction. There are those that believe we have too much power and influence on the world and that is a bad thing. I see it as a stability and something to look forward to in the future when it comes to other countries. We have had the largest number or people leaving the United States to become citizens of other countries in history because they see the American Dream disappear before their eyes. Still, compared to other countries, we have more that still come to this country to be illegals, so all is not lost quite yet.

Building a Honda in the United States does not fix the problem of us losing an edge of being the best, it just means part of the cost to build the car is still kept inside our borders, but the major profit still goes to that host nation, and that's still billions of dollars. The mentality that it's OK simply means we are the Roman Empire II, not the shining light on the hill for others to aspire to emulate.

As a side note, I just received my certificate to shift my name from the Navy's standby reserve list to the Retired list for 30 years of service. The certificate was received yesterday, but was dated November First, Twenty twelve. Nice framable certificate.
Congratulations!

Thanks for your service to this country should be understood from the get-go, but formally - 'Thank you for serving the USofA in the US Navy'.

I was never in physically acceptable shape to do so, therefore, you (and others) did so in the place of those who didn't or couldn't. You and yours bore that extra burden.
 

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Yes, and when the first gas crisis happened back in the early 70s, I remember those that had the hotrods, Camaro, Mustang, Challengers, Barracudas, Darts, Novas, Chevelles, and some VWs, there was the occasional Toyota or Datsun, The latter two were laughed at for performance because their claim to fame was wheels and a paint job, but they got good gas mileage and were pretty durable. How times changed. Not only did the aftemarket and the advent of the turbo performance ability increase these little engine capabilities, since the kids going to school had their parents get them the Honda, Toyota or Datsun because they got good gas mileage and weren't fast, it's what they worked with, and it really took off. At the same time, it is when the 4door hotrod started coming out in force because that is what they had. If the market looked at it and took data, they would find they were driving 4door cars and hotrodding them because that is what they started with, not because it was the model they wanted, it was their starter car. Yes, as we get older the 4doors starts to make more sense, but it isn't always the rule. It is kind of the 1962 smaller car rumor that was started in a CEO wine and dine that had Mopar follow a perceived trend that isn't necessarily true.

Thanks Javelin AMX. That means a lot to me. Also explains my Pro-American stance, haha.
 

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MoparNorm said:
My California wife and myself, a Wrangler, Liberty, Dodge Chassis/Cab, Dodge W200, CJ7, Grand Wagoneer, FSJ Cherokee.
Daughter, Dodge Journey, Grand Wagoneer.
Daughter, Patriot (looking for a new Wrangler)
Brother, Durango, Ram, Wrangler.
Sister, Durango.
Nephew, Wrangler
We just feel it's a matter of national survival to support American industries, as long as they don't export jobs.
If Americans fail to understand that, this economic downturn is likely permanent, a result of "globalization".

About 70% of autos here are imports.
Hear, hear ...

I don't know the timing of all the industries which globalized beginning back in the day, but recall only one which could wield much influence at all - and it happened to be an auto maker - Ford. They put heavy emphasis in moving in that direction in 1968. Memory is a funny thing ... sometimes it works reeeeally well, other times it doesn't. But their euro Cortina (as I recall) used a few very, very minor parts common with one of the domestic models. They started with those part numbers (this is what I heard by happenstance from a retired Ford exec a few decades ago). It moved relentlessly from there.
 

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Should also note that there is healthy and unhealthy globalization.

Unhealthy is when you say, "Hey, I can get that cheaper from China/India/Mexico if I shut my eyes and ignore IP theft/working conditions/quality/competitors learning how to do it as well as I do."

Healthy is, well, Chrysler/Fiat, in my opinion, within reason -- things go both ways, and the two groups build on each others' accomplishments. It's not perfect but it's been good for both partners.

For a time, IBM used globalization to work 24 hours a day on client projects with handoffs every eight hours, based on time zone. Now, it's all about how many Americans you can put out of work, at least according to Bob Cringely.

It would help, at the risk of going political, if we could discuss these things objectively and rationally and weighing pros and cons of policies and taxation and such without having one side or the other screaming words like "[removed]! Protectionist!," as though accusing an idea of belonging to a forbidden ideology is a rational argument. As Mort Deutsch, one of the greats of social psychology, pointed out, we value the different resource allocation systems, including the primary tenets of communism and capitalism, in different places. Everyone is supposed to be equal in the queue and in availability of schools and in the draft and at the Motor Vehicles department... resources are supposed to be given according to need rather than money or merit in the emergency room... and most people favor merit-based pay especially for salesmen...

Moderators, if I'm out of line, please feel free to delete the foregoing paragraph.
 

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You guys are moving way off topic again. I don't see the need to remove any posts yet, but please keep it on track.

Mike
 

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The question still comes up as, why is Ford pulling out? I didn't see the answer or reason in the article or reference article.
 

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dana44 said:
The question still comes up as, why is Ford pulling out? I didn't see the answer or reason in the article or reference article.
They say they want to focus marketing money on younger buyers. RallyX had apparently been quite successful for them.

See link for Q & A and see quote below
http://m.racing.ford.com/drag-racing/news/articles/director-jamie-allison-discusses-nhra-sponsorship-1293055427306/

“Ford is not getting out of drag racing,” the statement read. “We are fully committed to continue our support of grassroots sportsman drag racing with our Mustang Cobra Jet, parts support and contingency programs. Enthusiasts and production-based racing is at the heart of what we do.

"We have, however, made a business decision to conclude our team sponsorships and support in the NHRA Mello Yello Series at the end of the 2014 season. This decision was based on an ongoing assessment of our motorsport programs’ effectiveness and the strategic alignment with our company objectives globally.”
Mike
 

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So the title needs to be changed, it is more, Ford pulls support for Mello Yello NHRA racing sponsorship. You are right, I did read that but kind of glossed over it thinking, OK, still in racing, just not supporting a team. Mello Yello was hot with the kids about 20 years ago, along with Mountain Dew, but things change, yes, racing just gets faster.
 

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dana44 said:
So the title needs to be changed, it is more, Ford pulls support for Mello Yello NHRA racing sponsorship. You are right, I did read that but kind of glossed over it thinking, OK, still in racing, just not supporting a team. Mello Yello was hot with the kids about 20 years ago, along with Mountain Dew, but things change, yes, racing just gets faster.
No it shouldn't, we are catching you up. The original posts are about how Mopar feels about Ford leaving the top levels of NHRA. The news on Ford is a month old.

As of now Mopar does not see a reason to stop providing manufacturer support in the top level of the NHRA.

I expect to see Force's team do a major shift to fuel dragster once losing Ford... If another manufacturer doesn't step up. I don't see Mopar sponsoring Force, but I have no doubt that Toyota has already called him.

There are currently two major Mopar engine suppliers for ProStock. I would love to see them help the two or three smaller Dodge pro stock teams to get them in contention.

Allen Johnson Team Mopar Avenger
V. Gaines Kendall Oil Avenger
Jeg Coughlin JEGS.com/Mopar Avenger
Vincent Nobile Mountain View Tire Avenger
Matt Hartford Total Seal/Nickens/CIP 1 Avenger
Chris McGaha Harlow Sammons of Odessa Avenger

Lets get all the Mopar's faster before adding more cars/teams. One of those cars is Nickens powered and I'm not sure what's left of the Chrysler Nickens relationship.

Mike
 

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Mike V. said:
As of now Mopar does not see a reason to stop providing manufacturer support in the top level of the NHRA.


There are currently two major Mopar engine suppliers for ProStock. I would love to see them help the two or three smaller Dodge pro stock teams to get them in contention.

Allen Johnson Team Mopar Avenger
V. Gaines Kendall Oil Avenger
Jeg Coughlin JEGS.com/Mopar Avenger
Vincent Nobile Mountain View Tire Avenger
Matt Hartford Total Seal/Nickens/CIP 1 Avenger
Chris McGaha Harlow Sammons of Odessa Avenger

Lets get all the Mopar's faster before adding more cars/teams. One of those cars is Nickens powered and I'm not sure what's left of the Chrysler Nickens relationship.

Mike
I would prefer Stanfield myself. Mopar better be willing to keep up solid support in Pro Stock. In case you haven't seen this from the members only section of the NHRA site, Ford is not about to give Mopar a free ride in NHRA............


Sunday, 01 September 2013

Hemi King Westcott Kicking the Tires in Pro Stock?
Written by Kevin McKenna



12:23 p.m.: Charlie Westcott Jr. didn’t win Friday’s Mopar Hemi Challenge, and if everything goes as planned, he might not even return for next year’s event. Westcott’s legendary War Fish Barracuda, the same car that has carried him to five Hemi Challenge titles, is currently for sale, and he is now pondering an attempt at Pro Stock racing in the near future.
“I build engines for a living, and as far as I’m concerned, it wouldn’t cost me any more to build a Pro Stock engine than a Super Stock engine,” said Westcott. “I plan to gather some parts and pieces and start building a 500-inch Pro Stock engine. If it makes competitive power, I’ll buy a car and maybe run a few races. I really don’t think I’d spend any more money than I do now.
Despite his extensive experience with Mopar Hemi engines, Westcott says that he’s pondering a Ford engine for his possible Pro Stock debut, which means he’d almost certainly be in a Ford Mustang.
“I have a great relationship with Jesse Kershaw at Ford, and I have access to a lot of their technology and some good parts," said Westcott. “I have some ideas on how to do things that might be a little different than what some other guys are doing, and I’d like to have a chance to try them out.”
 

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MoparNorm said:
As irritating as Force's personality is to some, what you see is what you get and the sport will be poorer, if he retires.
It would be kind of cool to see him in a Mopar.
In a 2 page interview in this week's "Autoweek", John Force unequivacally states that he is NOT retiring from drag racing, is actively courting sponsors to replace Ford (says he has some nibbles) and will be in NHRA for years to come, though he may move some rescources over to Top Fuel from FC. He is committed to his "next generation" and will leave no stone unturned to find adequate support. In a curious hint as to why Ford pulled their FC support, he refers to the Ford racing program getting "too crowded" when Bob Tasca came along. I'll leave you to try to decipher that "JohnForcespeak".
 

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Beentherebefore said:
I would prefer Stanfield myself. Mopar better be willing to keep up solid support in Pro Stock. In case you haven't seen this from the members only section of the NHRA site, Ford is not about to give Mopar a free ride in NHRA............


Sunday, 01 September 2013 Hemi King Westcott Kicking the Tires in Pro Stock?
Written by Kevin McKenna



12:23 p.m.: Charlie Westcott Jr. didn’t win Friday’s Mopar Hemi Challenge, and if everything goes as planned, he might not even return for next year’s event. Westcott’s legendary War Fish Barracuda, the same car that has carried him to five Hemi Challenge titles, is currently for sale, and he is now pondering an attempt at Pro Stock racing in the near future.
“I build engines for a living, and as far as I’m concerned, it wouldn’t cost me any more to build a Pro Stock engine than a Super Stock engine,” said Westcott. “I plan to gather some parts and pieces and start building a 500-inch Pro Stock engine. If it makes competitive power, I’ll buy a car and maybe run a few races. I really don’t think I’d spend any more money than I do now.
Despite his extensive experience with Mopar Hemi engines, Westcott says that he’s pondering a Ford engine for his possible Pro Stock debut, which means he’d almost certainly be in a Ford Mustang.
“I have a great relationship with Jesse Kershaw at Ford, and I have access to a lot of their technology and some good parts," said Westcott. “I have some ideas on how to do things that might be a little different than what some other guys are doing, and I’d like to have a chance to try them out.”
I understand you are a Stanfield fan, but getting all the current teams up to speed makes more sense than adding another.

As for the comments from Wescott, if he chooses to be a traitor and to Ford, that's fine. However, Ford has made it clear that they will not support the top rings of the NHRA so regardless of his friends, he won't be getting anymore support than Larry Morgan gets, which isn't much.

Wescott or not, Ford would need to pour a lot of cash into a pro stock program to catch up to GM and Mopar. After five years of having nearly identical heads as the Hemi, they still have only a handful if round wins.

Mike
 

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Beentherebefore said:
In a 2 page interview in this week's "Autoweek", John Force unequivacally states that he is NOT retiring from drag racing, is actively courting sponsors to replace Ford (says he has some nibbles) and will be in NHRA for years to come, though he may move some rescources over to Top Fuel from FC. He is committed to his "next generation" and will leave no stone unturned to find adequate support. In a curious hint as to why Ford pulled their FC support, he refers to the Ford racing program getting "too crowded" when Bob Tasca came along. I'll leave you to try to decipher that "JohnForcespeak".
Sad to see Force throwing Tasca and Wilkerson under the bus...especially since he brought Tasca to this point.

Comments like that show desperation... That's sad. I hope Mopar stays far away from Force.

Mike
 

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Mike V. said:
I understand you are a Stanfield fan, but getting all the current teams up to speed makes more sense than adding another.

As for the comments from Wescott, if he chooses to be a traitor and to Ford, that's fine. However, Ford has made it clear that they will not support the top rings of the NHRA so regardless of his friends, he won't be getting anymore support than Larry Morgan gets, which isn't much.

Wescott or not, Ford would need to pour a lot of cash into a pro stock program to catch up to GM and Mopar. After five years of having nearly identical heads as the Hemi, they still have only a handful if round wins.

Mike
I like Stanfield because he is deadly on the tree and can make a more than competitive run with 2nd string equipment. After watching V. Gaines give away that PS final yesterday, i'm thinking that might be worth something. Stanfield also buiids pretty good motors and ran a Mopar for awhile back when the new Hemi first came out.

As to the Ford statements.........heard that all before, like their big announcement that they would no longer support Nascar teams back in 1971.........just before the Woods bros and Pearson went on a 4 or 5 year rampage.
 

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Mike V. said:
Sad to see Force throwing Tasca and Wilkerson under the bus...especially since he brought Tasca to this point.

Comments like that show desperation... That's sad. I hope Mopar stays far away from Force.

Mike
I agree. I think that Hagan, Capps, and Beckman are much better representatives of the Mopar brand than "Windbag" John Force could ever be.............plus he's a bad sport. I still remember his being called out by the TV announcers for throwing a race to let another of his drivers make the chase and then trying to keep a straight face while denying it - back maybe 2 or 3 years ago.
 

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Looks like John Force is really going to have to dig deep. Just read in my latest edition of "National Dragster" that he is not only going to lose the support from Ford, but also that Castrol GTX will be pulling the plug after next year too. They have supported JFR for almost 20 years. Guess they don't see much value in him anymore.
 

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Beentherebefore said:
............plus he's a bad sport. I still remember his being called out by the TV announcers for throwing a race to let another of his drivers make the chase and then trying to keep a straight face while denying it - back maybe 2 or 3 years ago.
That's nothing different than F1 does, every weekend... Maybe Ferrari will enter NHRA? ;)
 

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Beentherebefore said:
Looks like John Force is really going to have to dig deep. Just read in my latest edition of "National Dragster" that he is not only going to lose the support from Ford, but also that Castrol GTX will be pulling the plug after next year too. They have supported JFR for almost 20 years. Guess they don't see much value in him anymore.
I wouldn't say they don't see value in him... Castrol has been cutting back their sponsorship for several years now. Unfortunately for Force, it's been a long time coming. The economy hasn't gotten better and the NHRA, like NASCAR, is still struggling to fill the stands.

I'm not concerned about John... He will steal someone's sponsor :lol:

Mike
 

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Mike V. said:
I wouldn't say they don't see value in him... Castrol has been cutting back their sponsorship for several years now. Unfortunately for Force, it's been a long time coming. The economy hasn't gotten better and the NHRA, like NASCAR, is still struggling to fill the stands.

I'm not concerned about John... He will steal someone's sponsor :lol:

Mike
I don't see NHRA struggling at all. The last time I went to Pomona, you could barely move around in the pits for all the fans packed in there.......and that was on a Friday! Most NHRA national meets exceed 100,000 spectators total for the weekend. Maybe that's not enough for Castrol but I suspect that Force was waning in his value to the company with his unexceptional performances these last few years. His "next generation" drivers may not have the panache that he once did and he's really been pushing to build an empire for them. Empires cost big $$$$.

And yes, he will at least try to steal somebody else's sponsor. Hope it's not from any of the Mopar teams.
 
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