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Mustang Mach-E Performance vehicles surpass mileage goals by a lot

4K views 24 replies 14 participants last post by  hmk123 
#1 ·
#4 ·
The real game changer will be the F-150 Lightning. If it lives up to all the hype, Ram and Chevy will be playing catch-up for several years. GM at least has a plan, Ram because of very poor management opinions on electrics, is years behind GM. They will be the new steam engine companies still promoting the benefits of coal powered steam engines over diesel powered locomotives in the late 40s. None survived, even ones that converted later.
 
#8 ·
I still believe until there is new battery tech and a solid recharging network, the best answer for most is a plug-in Hybrid and that should be very doable for Stellantis in the near term. That tech can be sold to the masses. Full electric power for all your around town errands, with gas engine for longer trips or extra power/sound. Those have to be close to release in all the larger vehicles I would think?
 
#9 ·
I'd like to see Stellantis offering both PHEV and EV versions of most of their vehicles. Even with range and infrastructure where it is today, the American 2-car family would get along just fine with an EV and PHEV - the EV for regular commuter duty, the PHEV for long trips. IMO the biggest holdup for EVs right now is purchase price, which probably is addressed by new battery tech you mentioned.
 
#10 ·
I suspect most of the Mustang is based on Rivian’s advanced technology, but that just means Ford was smart enough to dive into the market at the right time - or they just assumed Bezos was smart and did what he did. Amazon agreed to buy 100,000 Rivian vans before Ford started their huge buy-in. Marchionne’s strategy was like Daimler’s—wait until the dust is settled and partner with someone. I'm not necessarily critical of that, since it's an awful lot cheaper and less risky, but it also means the company will be a marginal player ten years down the road. Government regulations or no government regulations, given that most people buy ordinary gasoline powered cars and use them to commute under 40 miles, I'd assume electric would be the norm eventually no matter what.
 
#14 ·
You really aren't taking into account how Americans buy vehicles.

Most Europeans after '97 bought a subcompact hatch with a small Diesel engine. I would expect in Europe BEVs will become the norm.

In the US the same kind of buying behavior would give us a fleet that was 90% compact 4 cylinder cars. Instead we get a fleet that is 18% pickups, 22% conventional cars, 50% SUV/CUV, and 10% others (vans, minivans, sports cars).

From American buying habits you can be certain that PHEVs will become the norm in the US. People will want a car that has the capability to take a road trip in remote locations, even if they only use that capability a few times a year, or never.
 
#17 ·
Yup, hydrogen will be big in Class 6-8 trucks and such—and seagoing ships. Toyota is in the lead there. Hydrogen did not make much sense until wind turbine and solar costs plummeted; now we have grids with overcapacity in renewables (which are relatively inexpensive). It makes sense to me that one would build double the wind and solar one needs in a particular grid, and then use them to create hydrogen fuel when they are not needed to keep things going. Right now the main thing they do to counter fluctuations in power demand is they keep nuclear, coal, etc going, and shut off the turbines, because it's easy. Instead, they could keep the turbines on and (a) fluctuate output of nat-gas plants, which is easy on the more modern designs, and (b) generate hydrogen with the extra, varying demand instead of varying capacity.

As for "car guy" stuff, 98% of the public either doesn't care or prefers electric’s torque anyway. There aren't that many instant-on gasoline engines (392 counts!). All this stuff about "what about an emergency," well, if people top off every night, they have about the same range as a gasoline car on one tank of gas. How many people keep a spare 20 gallons of fuel in their car? (Assuming a major emergency, the gas stations will likely be inaccessible too, for most people.) And then hydrogen will probably be a solution.

I don't think Ford, of all companies, would be diving into electric power if it wasn't the future. Ford talks a good game and always has, but their execs (and most of GM’s) have pretty much the mind-set of ExxonMobile.

Will there be solutions for people who run out of power or whatever? Maybe. It'll be worked out. How many people insist on just having a spare tire?

However... I'm not going to rebut any rebuttals because this is something like the 30th thread with the same tired arguments.
 
#21 ·
Right now, for many manufacturers (except GM and Tesla who have exceeded the sale limits), the federal $7500 tax credit helps with sales (or leases). This allows the manufacturer to charge more for the car than the end user pays - offsetting some of the increased costs. I know there are discussions with extending the credit - but that's a lot of incentive to pry people from gas to electrics and the results aren't huge yet. I think many people expect their future electric car should be less expensive than a gas one.
 
#22 ·
I would expect it to be a little more, but with much better acceleration than I could get from a normal engine... e.g. I pay $6,000 more but I get the equivalent of a V8 upgrade.

For the record, I oppose extending the $7500 credit and I opposed its creation in the first place, along with the crusher bill... in case anyone wondered.
 
#23 ·
Chrysler used to be known as an industry leader and innovator. Now they're just late to the party on everything. They'll show up with electric vehicles after they're too late to cut out any market share.

The fact that Wagoneer isn't launching with ANY EV powertrains is just lunacy.
 
#25 ·
Someone correct me if I am wrong here. But I think in Germany EV MSRPs are usually listed with the rebate already included?

The 42kW Fiat 500e would then be around 38560 Euros (web site lists it at 29560 Euros). Subtract the VAT and convert it to dollars and you are at $37k. How does that make any sense? Granted, if the rebate has not been included already and the discounted price is $20k (without VAT) the prices make more sense.
 
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