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Depends on the length of your trips. During the time the engine is cold, it averages 1/2 of the gas mileage that it gets when warm. Extended warmup time is a killer.
Bob Lincoln said:Depends on the length of your trips. During the time the engine is cold, it averages 1/2 of the gas mileage that it gets when warm. Extended warmup time is a killer.
Okay so it takes about 15 minutes of driving to reach normal operating temps. What you guys are saying is that I have to drive for like 2 hours at highway speeds to get my fuel mileage back to a realistic number...ahhhh, no!!PCRMike said:And colder intake air means a richer fuel mix to atomize fully. Especially with short trip.
I hope so. It's spring and we're still experiencing winter type temps........ImperialCrown said:Warmer weather is coming.
ATF+4 is NOT synthetic....."The paper noted that one alternative was to use synthetic Group IV base stock, which are even more expensive than the ATF+4 solution, which provided Group IV style performance from Group III stock. ATF+4 meets strict low-temperature, oxidation, and volatility performance requirements and relatively low cost — believe it or not."ImperialCrown said:ATF+4 is a synthetic fluid.
The other half of the cold fuel economy drop is the winter fuel blend composition.
Something is wrong with your vehicle. It should NOT take 15 minutes of driving to warm up - about 5. You should check fault codes and probably replace the thermostat, also. I just found last week that my truck is taking 5 miles to warm up, and it's storing a code 17 - thermostat is sticking open. That's why my normal 20 mpg highway is about 18.4 these days. Something that you might never notice if you don't monitor things like I do.SuperShadow said:Okay so it takes about 15 minutes of driving to reach normal operating temps. What you guys are saying is that I have to drive for like 2 hours at highway speeds to get my fuel mileage back to a realistic number...ahhhh, no!!
According to the link you posted, yes, ATF+4 IS most definitely synthetic:SuperShadow said:ATF+4 is NOT synthetic....."The paper noted that one alternative was to use synthetic Group IV base stock, which are even more expensive than the ATF+4 solution, which provided Group IV style performance from Group III stock. ATF+4 meets strict low-temperature, oxidation, and volatility performance requirements and relatively low cost — believe it or not."
Original is at Chrysler transmission fluids: 7176, ATF+3, ATF+4 http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/fluids.html#ixzz2OwirZfwy
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Okay guys, I didn't say it took 15 minutes for the vehicle to reach normal temps. I was just throwing out an arbitrary number to make the point that idling (even extended idling) or reaching normal temps would not create a 50% decrease in fuel economy.......period!Bob Lincoln said:Something is wrong with your vehicle. It should NOT take 15 minutes of driving to warm up - about 5.
Something doesn't sound right. Even in subzero temps, I don't believe it should take that long to get to proper operating temperature. Even in sub freezing temps, my vehicles are at operating temperature in 5 miles (~5 minutes or so).
Wrong. Of course it does. Idling gives you zero miles per gallon, averaged into your trip. I've worked with trying to characterize and improve the factors in fuel economy for over 35 years, and idling and cold engine operation are by far the two most influential factors.SuperShadow said:SuperShadow, on 29 Mar 2013 - 13:12, said:
Okay guys, I didn't say it took 15 minutes for the vehicle to reach normal temps. I was just throwing out an arbitrary number to make the point that idling (even extended idling) or reaching normal temps would not create a 50% decrease in fuel economy.......period!
Given, but not the 50% drop in economy...I think everyone is missing the point. I'm not denying idling gets you nowhere, I'm complaining about getting over 600 kms ( 360 miles) on a tank of fuel in the summer versus 320 kms (192 miles) on the same tank of fuel driven over the same roads at the same speed, driving the same route at the same time of day (traffic patterns accounted for!!). I'd LOVE it if I was only losing 8% in fuel economy..I'm not!!! I'm losing 50% in fuel economy...that's a whole different ball game folks!!Bob Lincoln said:Wrong. Of course it does. Idling gives you zero miles per gallon, averaged into your trip. I've worked with trying to characterize and improve the factors in fuel economy for over 35 years, and idling and cold engine operation are by far the two most influential factors.
Example: My truck's thermostat is stuck open, and instead of the usual 3 miles, it takes over 5 miles to warm up. So on a 38-mile commute, 29 miles of which is highway driving, mileage went from 20 to 18.4 - an 8% drop.
Group III stocks are mineral based and indeed are used in the formation of alot of semi-synthetic oils but are in fact high grade mineral oil stock not synthesised or man-made stocksDoug D said:According to the link you posted, yes, ATF+4 IS most definitely synthetic:
"Group III are called synthetic, and have high molecular uniformity and stability. Group III oil bases are used in most synthetic oils."
Guess you missed that part.
Splitting hairs if you ask me. At any rate, ATF+4 IS the recommended fluid for Chrysler transmissions. Period. Use other fluids at risk of violating your warranty.SuperShadow said:Given, but not the 50% drop in economy...I think everyone is missing the point. I'm not denying idling gets you nowhere, I'm complaining about getting over 600 kms ( 360 miles) on a tank of fuel in the summer versus 320 kms (192 miles) on the same tank of fuel driven over the same roads at the same speed, driving the same route at the same time of day (traffic patterns accounted for!!). I'd LOVE it if I was only losing 8% in fuel economy..I'm not!!! I'm losing 50% in fuel economy...that's a whole different ball game folks!!
Group III stocks are mineral based and indeed are used in the formation of alot of semi-synthetic oils but are in fact high grade mineral oil stock not synthesised or man-made stocks