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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Have you stripped it down to the bare block yet, Bubbles? I'm curious as to what you find the cylinders look like. I've read on some of the 2.4 rebuilds out of PT's with over 200,000 miles on them that still show the cross hatch marks in the cylinders. I've rebuilt several engines in my days, but have NEVER seen any of them with the cross hatch marks still in them. But in all fairness, I've never rebuilt a 2.4. Last rebuild was over 20 years ago and was an late 70's 318.
I haven't disassembled the motor yet - still planning and figuring out what I'll need to order.

I also have 2 motors for the PT - the original and the replacement in it now. Both motors have never been rebuilt though so I think I might rebuild the original motor that is already out of the car and then just be able to drop it in rather than pulling and rebuilding the motor in the car now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
On a separate note - I am trying to also register at ptcruziserlinks.com and something seems to be wrong with their registration...has anyone else seen this or know how to get around it to create an account there?

Error: "The string you entered for the image verification did not match what was displayed."

The problem is, though, that nothing appears for me under the "Image Verification" section...
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
FYI the Links site has been dead for new registration for at least a year and is all but a dead site. That's why Rick, me and a number of others are here.
Ah thank you! Someone kept recommending going there so I was trying.

Good to keep it here all in one place.

Thanks again "the3dgm"!
 

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HandyCruiser here is still a very active member on the ptcruiserlinks. site. Maybe you can PM him for information. As Bubbles stated, nobody is able to join anymore. It's a shame too, because there's a multitude of knowledge there about the PT Cruisers. It's all going to be lost once that site crashes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
HandyCruiser here is still a very active member on the ptcruiserlinks. site. Maybe you can PM him for information. As Bubbles stated, nobody is able to join anymore. It's a shame too, because there's a multitude of knowledge there about the PT Cruisers. It's all going to be lost once that site crashes.
Definitely a bummer - hopefully those knowledgeable folks make there way over here.
 

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Some already have. I know counting myself, there's at least 5 others here already. I'm not one of the more knowledgeable ones, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Some already have. I know counting myself, there's at least 5 others here already. I'm not one of the more knowledgeable ones, though.
Well - I appreciate anyone's experience and what they can offer! And dude...you have 8054 Posts...that's gotta count for something!
 

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I have never paid much attention to how many posts I have. But in all fairness, I've been here for quite a few years. Actually 2 more than it shows. I had two brain surgeries in 04 and severe memory loss, so had to rejoin as a new member. I could remember my old user name in 06 but had already assumed a new identity. Before Chuzz, I was Seed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I have never paid much attention to how many posts I have. But in all fairness, I've been here for quite a few years. Actually 2 more than it shows. I had two brain surgeries in 04 and severe memory loss, so had to rejoin as a new member. I could remember my old user name in 06 but had already assumed a new identity. Before Chuzz, I was Seed.
Wow - sounds like you've got quite a story to tell Chuzz. Well I am glad you are here and helping folks as you can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Hey folks - 10 months later and I have moved, got a new job and a different PT Cruiser. My 2002 ended up having transmission issues again and instead of diving into that once again (after just having rebuilt it from scratch) I decided to use it as a parts car and stripped it down to the shell.

I now am working on a 2003 N/A PT Cruiser and have done a lot of work and transferred things like the Front/Rear disc brakes and rear sway bar from the 2002.

I'll get right to my current issue in hopes that someone might have a suggestion: Todd Forthman had given me a cam profile that I could have my N/A cams ground to that would've them a bit more pep (get up and go) and I recently just got done swapping those into the PT.

Here's the current problem - the PT will not start with the Camshaft Positioning Sensor plugged in. If I unplug it I can start it after cranking for a bit and it will stay running (not backfiring or missing but a bit rough).

Here are things I have done now trying to diagnose/resolve this:

  1. Double checked the timing belt on the cam gears to make sue it is still lined up and didn't slip
  2. Diagnosed the entire ignition system with a voltmeter - everything checks out
  3. Swapped the Crankshaft Positioning Sensor
  4. Swapped the Camshaft Positioning Sensor
  5. Tried multiple Coils & Wires
  6. Tried multiple PCMs paired to this PT.
  7. Tried multiple Camshaft magnets
The issue persists...and I am at a loss as to what it might be but fearful that the re-ground cams might be at fault and may need to be pulled...

Here's a bit about those reground cams - they were from my 2002 PT. I THINK that the camshafts themselves are the same between 2002 & 2003 even though the PCMs and Camshaft magnets are different...so I think they should work in the 2003 but does anyone know different?

Could this be a timing issue and the PT thinks timing is way off?

Could I be perhaps 1 tooth off on the timing belt and it would cause this behavior? (Crank no start unless camshaft positioning sensor is unplugged)...

Thank you very much for all help.

Shane
 

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Hey Shane, Todd knows a LOT about the PT's. I'd suggest you send him a PM and see what he suggests. It sure sounds like your timing is off to me, but I'm not an ASE Certified Master Mechanic like Todd. I DO find it kind of odd that it starts with the CPS unplugged, though. Have you thoroughly inspected the wiring. And are you positive that you don't have the Cam sensor and Crank sensor wires swapped? That's happened before as both plugs are identical IIRC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Thanks for the response Chuzz.

I tested and verified all wiring and plugs. I also bumped the timing belt 1 tooth today in case it was off. The did not solve it.

Another question for anyone - I used a 2002 set of camshafts...but this is a 2003 PT Cruiser. I know there is a different Cam magnet between the years and I am using the 2003 for the vehicle. But I just found that the 2002 has a different and specific part number for its intake camshaft that differs from the 2003-2005.

Does anyone know if this difference would cause no starting? Given that the cam was re-ground to a Crower profile I am not sure if the year difference would matter...unless it is somehow related to the relation with the cam magnet...in which case that might explain why the PT is not starting with the CPS plugged in?

Thanks folks.

Shane
 

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1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
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The vehicle can start and run on the crankshaft position sensor. After a few revolutions, the PCM will figure out camshaft position by inserting a default value.
In this case a default value is more accurate than a wrong value for cam position and allow it to run.

2003.5 is when the upgrade to NGC (next generation controller) from the SBEC (single board engine controller) began in stages to all models. The cam and crank positions were given more resolution for more accurate timing control and management.

The cam/crank reluctors and sensors were different for the next generation. Things may not be plug n' play between these 'change-over' years:






 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
@ImperialCrown

Thank you very much - great info and pictures!

I also received the ultimate solution from Todd Forthman (hallelujah and never-ending thanks Todd).

Todd's fix:
Because the vehicle (PCM) is 2003 I need to use a 2003 magnet. But the cams I had ground and installed were from 2002 and apparently they are a rare make where the magnet is also 90 degrees different from other cam shafts. So Todd suggested I shave off the tiny posts on the magnet that go into the holes on the back of the cam so that I could freely spin the magnet and adjust it 90 degrees from where the posts would have held it in the holes. THIS WORKED. Todd thought it might have actually been a 45 degree difference but that prevented the car from starting so I put it back at 90 degrees.

Few notes:
I am able to spin the magnet both CLOCKWISE OR COUNTER-CLOCKWISE 90 degrees and the PT will start. Does anyone know if this makes a difference?

I did try a 2002 magnet and the PT actually DID start with the cam sensor fully connected - it ran pretty well but the PCM threw up a P0344 code so it definitely is a no go:

P0344 is an OBDII diagnostic code. It is a generic code, which means that it has the same meaning for the Chrysler PT Cruiser as it would any other vehicle. If your PT Cruiser has this code, it means that the PCM (powertrain control module) has detected that the camshaft position circuit is sending an intermittent signal.

Your camshaft position sensor sends a signal back to the PCM when the ignition is on. Its job is to measure the rotational position of the camshaft. This information is used to control engine performance and timing, and is checked against the crankshaft position sensor.

An intermittent signal means that the signal coming from this sensor is failing to reach the PCM at certain points. The PCM will then trip the check engine light and you’ll get P0344.

P0344 is usually caused by an intermittent electrical fault. That fault is usually caused by an issue coming from your PT Cruiser’s camshaft position sensor, or the sensor itself.



I want to tweak the rotation to get the PT to run as smoothly as I can since I am having to eyeball 90 degrees and I also wonder with my cam grind if it might not run smoother if I am more like 95 or 85 degrees different...

Todd also shared a really cool cam chart with me that I will add here. This helped me confirm which cam was in my PT (the 2002 one I had re-ground). My cam matches the design of the 2001-2008 cams.
Product Rectangle Font Material property Parallel


And here are a few pics detailing the saga of my Cam Magnets...
Leg Automotive tire Light Tire Automotive lighting


Automotive tire Guitar accessory Thigh Bicycle tire Font



Automotive tire Road surface Asphalt Automotive wheel system Gas


Automotive tire Asphalt Road surface Font Circle


Automotive tire Human body Organism Font Plant


Automotive tire Light Rim Bicycle part Font



Thanks to all the help here.

More pics and progress of my PT (named "The Goblin") to come.

Shane
 

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Good deal, Shane. I figured Todd would be able to help you out. He's a good dude and absolutely LOVES PT Cruisers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Hey folks - much to my dismay I discovered oil coming from between my exhaust manifold and head. (Pictures below). I also now have the symptom of blue smoke coming out the tail pipe when I rev the motor.

I'm doing research and it seems like the only reason this could happen is if either the head gasket is blown or the valve guides are worn. Could I have somehow made this problem worse with the cam-shaft swap in this PT?

In addition to swapping the cam-shafts I also swapped out to new lifters and the 2.7 rocker arms with the improved oil delivery spout. Could doing any of this caused or surfaced this oil leak issue?

Many thanks for all your thoughts and ideas.

Shane



Automotive tire Gas Personal protective equipment Welding Electrical wiring


Automotive tire Motor vehicle Hat Working animal Bumper


Tire Wheel Automotive tire Hood Motor vehicle
 

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Have you looked at your oil or coolant for the dreaded chocolate milkshake? Did you torque everything to spec and in the proper sequence? I can't help you with info about the cams, so won't even venture a guess on that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I'll double check all fluids here shortly - and I will replace the PCV valve as well today and see if that makes any difference.

Sigh...I have a gut feeling I'll be tearing into the top end once again to make sure there isn't a head gasket leak or the valve guides are worn...

Time to gear up...
 

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Well, keep us posted on what you find and good luck with it.
 
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