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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have had my 04 PT for about eight months now. Initially it was fine but recently the turn signal fuse has begun randomly blowing. Whatever the problem is, the short is strong enough to blow a 30 amp fuse. Sometimes the fuse will last for days, other times it blows as I am backing out of the driveway or sitting still at a stoplight. One thing it will not do is blow if I am sitting in my driveway even with the engine running and turn signal on. The problem seems truly random.

I have followwed the wires for all turn signals from the switch to each bulb and there are no breaks, shorts, or spots where the wire insulation had rubbed away and let the wwire short out. I have checked the power distribution center under the hood and there are no obvious shorts or faults. I have replaced the rurn signal relay, the turn signal switch, and the instrument cluster. I cannot find a fault anywhere but the fuse keeps randomly blowing.

Anybody have a suggestion of what the problem might be?
 

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1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
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Welcome to Allpar. I would avoid using higher rated fuses. 30 amps can melt plastic & burn contacts.
I use a resetting circuit breaker while hunting down intermittent shorts. Inside the car, I can hear the breaker click when the short is present, or click again as the short is lifted. Local auto part stores should carry them. I have soldered the terminals from a blown fuse onto the breaker so it plugs right in.

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What else does that fuse send power to? Any collision damage history? Does the car have DRL?
Fuse #15 (20 amp) also powers the front & rear wiper motors.
If you can access and open the harness at splice S211, you might separate the wiper circuit from the turn signal circuit and splice in a temporary fuse between the Rd/Wt & DB bundle to narrow down the short location.
Sometimes locating the short is 98% of the job. 2% making sure it doesn't happen again.
Happy hunting!

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Have you removed the bulbs and actually looked into the sockets? sometimes the springs get rusty or the contact plate in the bottom can get "smashed" just enough for the contacts to touch one another. I'd look at the sockets before jumping into that wiring, but that's just because I'm lazy.
 
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Lamp sockets can short. Is the lighting even at all 4 bulbs during a walk-around with the parking lamps & hazard flashers on?
 

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Since the fuse will blow when the turn signals are not in use it may not be on the bulb end. It looks like that also feeds both wiper motors, I'm going to assume for the park circuit. Do both front and rear wipers work? Rear wiper motors have a tendency to fail due to road salt and grim getting into them causing corrosion. Imperialcrown's suggestion of separating the circuits is a good one i have used in the past. Helps narrow things down. I would also look at the harness around the steering column since it has tilt and that has a tendency to fatigue wires and may contact metal at times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
(1) all bulbs and sockets have been insected.
(2) turn signals/flashers all appear to be the same brightness
(3) the wiper motors (front and rear) are on a different circuit than tha turn signals and flashers. The turn signals and flashers are on their own circuit. All other electrical systems work fine when the turn signal fuse is blown
(4) I used a 30 amp fuse because it was all I had in the car and I needed working signals to drive home. 30 amp fuse still blew.
(5) no collision damage, no daytime running lights
(6) the fuse that is blowing is in the power distribution center under he hood, not the fuse block in the dash
(7) I have taken apart the interior and traced all the wiring and not seen any signs of worn or broken insulation or shorts on any of the wires. I have also traced the wires in the engine side of the firewall and found no signs of damage or falts in the wiring harness.
(8) I will go back and check the wiring in the steering column more carefully. I have replaced the turn signal switch and flasher relay several times and the problem persists.
 

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. . . .I have had my 04 PT for about eight months now. Initially it was fine but recently the turn signal fuse has begun randomly blowing. Whatever the problem is, the short is strong enough to blow a 30 amp fuse. Sometimes the fuse will last for days, other times it blows as I am backing out of the driveway or sitting still at a stoplight. One thing it will not do is blow if I am sitting in my driveway even with the engine running and turn signal on. The problem seems truly random. . . . .
Identify the specific fuse number tn the lower instrument panel fuse block which is failing. Fuse #1, #2, #14, #15?
See attached image.

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I don't think that there is anything inside the multifunction switch that would cause a short-to-ground. Only a circuit-to-circuit 'cross' short that should not blow a fuse, but may leak into another circuit.

@Airbornebarndoor1 brought up a good point. I have seen shorts at the column-to-instrument panel area. Adjusting the tilt column position may flex the harness enough to affect this.
Let us know what you find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The fuse is in the underhood power distribution center, not the fuse block under the dash. The only circuit being affected is the hazard/turn signal circuit all other items (brake lights, wipers, etc...) work fine.

The fuse that is blowing is number 18 in the following diagram:

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The fuse is supposed to be a 15 amp fuse, but like I said, the short is powerful enough to blow a 30 amp fuse.
See here: Chrysler PT Cruiser (2001 - 2005) - fuse box diagram - Auto Genius
I will try putting the steering wheel in a lower position so it isn't straining the wires.

One other symptom I did not mention earlier- when the blinker is working, sometimes it willrandomly slow the rate of blinking and then speed back up. Again, totally random non-repeatable. Does it sitting still or while moving and turning the steering wheel.
 

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The hazard switch is part of the turn signal switch and multifunction switch and could be allowing short to ground. Does the fuse fail when the hazard lamps front and rear are activated?

Push hazard switch multiple times to engage and disengage. Does fuse continue to fail? See attached image.

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I rarely use the hazards, but using that switch has also cause the fuse to fail. The fuse will fail with either the hazards or the turn signal activated, but it will not do so consistently.
 

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Have you checked the wires in the boot between the body and hatch? I needed to repair 4 wires that broke in the boot due to the flexing when opening/closing the hatch. The CHMSL is wired through this boot which is connected to the brake lamps and indrectly to the turn signals/hazard lamps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Have you checked the wires in the boot between the body and hatch? I needed to repair 4 wires that broke in the boot due to the flexing when opening/closing the hatch. The CHMSL is wired through this boot which is connected to the brake lamps and indrectly to the turn signals/hazard lamps.
Yes, I checked that already.
 

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The hazards run off a battery supply.
The turn signals run off an ign-on/run supply.
2 different circuits with 2 different fuses.

I think that it is narrowed down to what these 2 circuits share in common. Sockets, wiring or the bulbs themselves?
Can you narrow it down further to left or right side?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
"The hazards run off a battery supply.
The turn signals run off an ign-on/run supply.
2 different circuits with 2 different fuses."

I do not think this is correct. Using either the turn signals or the hazard will blow the same fuse, and when that fuse is blown neither system works. The fuse that is blowing is identified as the "hazard" fuse. When the fuse blows, only the turn signals and hazards do not work. All other electrical systems function properly: lights, wipers, heater fans, etc...
 

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Is it fuse #19 that keeps blowing?
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I found a discrepancy in the wiring diagram from Auto Genius and the factory wiring diagram. The fuse that is failing is PDC fuse #19; 15 amp. See attached diagram.

It appears that the factory wiring diagram omits fuse #16 in the drawing. At least factory documentation is consistent and all wiring diagrams for PDC fuse legends from 2001 thru 2005 omit fuse #16. So for the sake of this discussion and images presented, the failing fuse is #19.

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. . . .I rarely use the hazards, but using that switch has also cause the fuse to fail. The fuse will fail with either the hazards or the turn signal activated, but it will not do so consistently. . . . .
. . . .The hazards run off a battery supply. The turn signals run off an ign-on/run supply. 2 different circuits with 2 different fuses.

I think that it is narrowed down to what these 2 circuits share in common. Sockets, wiring or the bulbs themselves?
Can you narrow it down further to left or right side? . . .
Yes I would agree with the assessment by ImperialCrown. There are 2 feed circuits into the multifunction switch / hazard switch. One that is switched ignition ACC / RUN power and another direct battery power to fuse #19. Fuse #19 is failing I believe; not #18 whenever the turn signals are activated or the hazard flasher is activated.

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I still believe there is a short circuit in the hazard switch assembly part of the multifunction switch or combination flasher. Note in the diagram above when the hazard switch is moved from left to right, the circuits between rear turn signal lamps and the brake lamp circuit switch are broken. The turn signal lamps front and rear are connected to the hazard flasher area of the combination flasher and the combination flasher is grounded. This would indicate a problem with the hazard switch and / or ground circuit signal to the combination flasher.

Another test that can help narrow the diagnostic focus. Set hazard switch in the OFF position. Set turn signal in neutral position (not activated) When fuse #19 fails, do the rear brake / stop lamps still illuminate? If YES the stop lamps in this situation are powered by fuse #12. Fuse #12 has NOT failed so you know the rear stop lamp / turn signal circuitry to include the bulbs is good and not shorted to ground.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
"Another test that can help narrow the diagnostic focus. Set hazard switch in the OFF position. Set turn signal in neutral position (not activated) When fuse #19 fails, do the rear brake / stop lamps still illuminate? If YES the stop lamps in this situation are powered by fuse #12. Fuse #12 has NOT failed so you know the rear stop lamp / turn signal circuitry to include the bulbs is good and not shorted to ground."

Yes, the brake lamps still illuminate.

I have replaed the multifunction switch several times and the problem has persisted. I will try replacing it again and inspect the column wiring while I have it apart.
 

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If you have replaced the multifunction switch 'several times', I don't think that the problem is in the switch.
Look for harness pinch or rub-through to the metal brace (ground) in this area:

 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Took the column covers off and had a good look around the connectors and harnesses. No signs of insulation rubbing off, no signs of arcing or shorting, no signs of wires be stretched or kinked or otherwise damaged. Found the pin for the baattery feed from fuse 19 wwas not seating properly in the connector so I replaced it. Also found the clockspring was not seated properly and fixed that.

Fuse was fine wwhile I left the hazards on in my driveway for 45 minutes but blew within 15 second of me leaving the driveway on the test drive. Hazards and flashers work fine sitting still wwith the engine off, but if the engine is on the fuse blows.

I am at a loss. Unless a damaged clock spring can cause the turn signal wires to short out, I have no idea wwhat is making this fuse blow.
 
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