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Discussion Starter #1
I wonder if I am the only one who is fed up with all the negativity spewing from just a handful of old timers who write on this board.
I appreciate criticism of Chrysler's management when something comes up that is objectionable or even just questionable. However, some folks just keep writing critical posts, keep repeating the same old whining in every topic, at the slightest chance. Guys, we know you live in the rosy memories of a long gone past! This is today. The issue is survival: Chrysler went down the drain twice before, regardless of the fact (or perhaps because of it) that they were building the old classics you guys pine for. For Chrysler to survive, they needed a change of management style and a new way to design cars that are lighter and more fuel efficient. As a byproduct of these requirements, they also ride much better than the heavy barges of old.
Somehow, this constant whining and criticism of everything (almost, anyway) that is done by the new management are making this fine board less interesting, more repetitive and seemingly run by the critics....
There is much going on at Chrysler/FIAT, lots of exciting new cars, new technologies being introduced, new markets being opened up... and all we hear is constant repetition of the death of a Brand or how today's Chrysler engineers do not know how to design a suspension system, while our local "experts" think they could teach them how to do their work.
End of rant.
I wonder if I am alone in feeling this way.
 

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Say no to kool-aid
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I am tired of people complaining about people having objections.
I am tired of people with an overly "Rosy" outlook of management, seeming to believe they should blindly trust whatever decision management makes, because management knows best.
Chrysler's history actually demands skepticism. Many people though the Daimler merger was a great thing at first, some even thought Cerberus was good. I think most of us agree Fiat is better, but it is fair to have concerns or objections.

It's a forum to talk about cars. Alas this topic is not about cars, it's a trolling topic that serves no purpose but to cause issues. It belongs either locked or moved, or both.
 

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Maybe some value to this post can be found in enhancing understanding. To me, one must undrstand the voice of the poster, the position from which the individual is being motivated to speak, rant, strongly express an opinion or desire. I know that many times this is difficult to discern but for the most part, members (should) learn each others positions and sensitivities and should use these to temper potential reactions.

Some members are industry representatives who express their wishes for what subjectively "should be" or "could be" based on their unique perspective/experiences. Others are fans on the outside that simply express their wants/desires. And then there's the rest who pretty much orbit the periphery and might be bored.

Some might imagine that their posts are a unique way in which they can communicate with the manufacturer or others. All in all, any opinion or experience is information that has value as long as one finds its utility.
 

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I don't mind criticism, I think it makes discussions more interesting. It's also a good attitude to improve things ;).
 

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I agree, it takes away from legitimate news and discussion of the issue to repeat the same point over and over again.
 

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I don't know to whom the original poster is referring, but I agree with bumonbox. It's everyone's prerogative to talk about whether and how something they love can be improved. Having worked for a large company that was sold off to a brutal British holding company that gutted staff by 80%, destroyed market share and illegally altered the books, I can understand a sense of ownership by employees (or enthusiasts of a product) when "their" product has been attacked.

It's very amusing that you refer to downsizing and producing more fuel-efficient vehicles. Carmakers did respond to this demand c1975 after the 1973 oil embargo; c1980 after the 78-79 shortages; and in recent years. However, every time the price of gas drops, so does sales of economy cars, and people demand larger vehicles. What is selling the best in recent years? Huge SUVs with monster engines. Cars with less than 150 hp are sneered at, even though they are faster than most cars built 20 years ago, and could get better mileage. Cars with 200-300 hp engines are what are selling best.

Look at a Camry or an Accord of 1989 and today. The old one would fit inside the new one. Even foreign carmakers are bloating up and are participating in hp races, and getting worse gas mileage than 25 years ago.

If you don't give people what they want, you go out of business. People have been given what they want.
 

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DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
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I'm moving this to Off-topic. It's not Mopar news, however relevant it could be to the board itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
TWX said:
I'm moving this to Off-topic. It's not Mopar news, however relevant it could be to the board itself.
Off topic? It has to do with the death of Jeep, new models, support (or lack thereof) for Chrysler management. Perhaps even some self assessment for this great forum. Ok, we'll see if anyone follows up in this corner of the board ;)
 

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Just get a straw and suck it up. There's nothing we can do about it, we're just consumers.
 

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BTW, Chrysler did solicit opinion, and I participated. The Dart just happens to have nearly every feature that I asked for - sport 4 cyl 6-speed manual transmission car just a little bigger than a Daytona, with high-30s fuel economy and a basic model that's affordable. People on this forum seem to like it. Chrysler is already there.
 

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Durango Dave!
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I agree to a certain extent... I actually appreciate the objections and debate as long as it is anchored in facts and offers reasonable solutions.

Too many times there have been expressions of angst and doom and gloom, without the reasonability of logic and understanding... That is my biggest issue,... I like hearing differing opinions, that is how we grow... through exposure to new ideas. However, that cannot be done when the objectioner cannot explain/expound on their opinion in a way that is conducive to effective communication.

My .02 cents.... Your mileage may vary.
 

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Administrator
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My main objection is to the few people who say the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

And to those who respond by saying "Get over it."
 

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A zen-like approach is to accept those that repeat over and over again as constants and as well to those that say to "get over it."

Driving around the telephone poles is a lot less damaging than into them.

It's also unavoidable that anyone of us at any time can appear to be repetitive to another without even knowing it.
 

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If we all agreed with each other, why have conversations?
 

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Radioactive
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A reminder that you can block people who you consider to be repeatative.
I think that we have a pretty good balance between opinion, logical debate, and good-ole-fashioned-fan-boy-ism here.... we need a bit of each.
 

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Jeff2KPatriotBlue said:
A reminder that you can block people who you consider to be repeatative.
I think that we have a pretty good balance between opinion, logical debate, and good-ole-fashioned-fan-boy-ism here.... we need a bit of each.
I too have grumbled about hearing repetitive arguments. both now and in the past on here (back in 02-04 era). I used to get frustrated and felt like I needed to argue, or chase them away. Doesn't seem to work, only fuels the fire. As posted above, what does work is a simple 'block' on certain posters. And some discipline in not reading those posts. I feel much better now. :)
 

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Perspective is a wonderful thing. A very short time ago, this forum was full of posts about the death of Chrysler and whether the brands would be sold off or allowed to expire. At best, Jeep would be a Ford, Toyota or Chery brand by now had Fiat not stepped in.

So I get very tired of the repeated bashing of Fiat, Marchionne and the management team. Something right is being done, and it's not just surviving Chrysler management and/or engineering doing all the right things. This is a team effort now, and it needs to be accepted as such. Enough with the us vs. them - that's pointless. We're all in this together.

It's fine to question a decision you don't understand, or express an opinion about the direction you think is being taken, but droning on and on about it is useless. Speak your piece and then shut up unless you have specific information to add.

We all have our personal vision of what we want Chrysler to be, but that doesn't mean any one of us is more correct than the other. Nor are we entitled to drown out anyone who disagrees.
 

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Jeff2KPatriotBlue said:
A reminder that you can block people who you consider to be repeatative.
I think that we have a pretty good balance between opinion, logical debate, and good-ole-fashioned-fan-boy-ism here.... we need . bit of each.
Blocking unfortunately doesn't change the climate or feel of the board for lurkers, new posters or even Chrysler employees that may be considering working with Allpar in the future either officually or unofficially.

Some of the anti Sergio, Dart/500 are flops, anti Cherokee rants and general contrarian arguments make me wonder if some posters are collecting paychecks from Wolfsburg or are still sore after the election. There is definitely a platform and narrative to many of these posts.
Some folks have held the top spot on the soapbox for months and continue to complain about imaginary censorship. Some folks make patronizing and downright rude remarks and think they can sneak it in with a smiley emoticon or sarcasm tag.
Frankly I think this behavior scares away new members, attracts more crackpots, and possibly casts this site in a negative light with some Chrysler corporate folks.
 

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THE MAD DUCK
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Way Too Many Things are Not In "Fact".

Just Opinions.

TMD
 
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