[dana44]

OK, let's go to the basics.

Was the distributor removed from the engine? If so, roll the engine around to number one and install the distributor. If so, try swapping the distributor 180 degrees (may be why it pops and almost starts then doesn't). If not, let's move on.

First thing to do then is check for spark. Start with the key on (not start), pull the coil wire and make sure you have spark at the coil to engine surface (metal) and look at the spark when you turn the engine over, if not, check wiring to coil, if so, place the coil wire in the distributor cap then check at a sparkplug itself. If spark, good, if not, check inside distributor for rotor and double check the proper firing order, check wiring on both sides of the ballast resistor.

Fuel isn't the issue because you see it with the squirter, the kickdown won't interfere unless it is holding the throttle open or closed, which it shouldn't be.

 

[valiant67]

If it's actually running until you let the key turn back from start, then the problem is the ballast resistor. I'm not sure from you description of it firing for just a moment if that's the case or not.

 

[dana44]

Yeah, that's kind of hard to tell from his description. I think he may be popping through the exhaust and it spins the engine fast enough it seems like it is running. Since it did run, has to be something electrical, being distributor removed and replaced wrong, or electrical to the engine itself.

 

[68RT]

I agree it probably is a ballast resistor or perhaps since this seems to be a new installation, perhaps he is not getting the hot lead from the ingistion switch. Ballast may be good and the bypass is working but the ignition is not hooked up. Also, the kickdown linkage would have nothing to do with anything when it is in park or neutral.

 

[core]

I think you guy are on to something. I wired the motor using the Chrysler book and the engine would turn over, but that was it.
I called the the person who built the motor and he said that I would not need the ballasted or the electronic ignition control any longer.
So I wired the MDS distributor per their instructions.
After that is when the motor almost started.
I have not moved the destributor, but I did have to replace the cap because it cracked during the engine install. I took care in making sure that ever wire went back the correct way.
I just tried to start it again and this time I held the key in the on posion and as long as the key was on it really wanted to run, but like you said as soon as I let the key go everything stopped.
It sound like I need to revisit the ballast resistor.

 

[dana44]

Someone else has done this in order to verify it would run. Take a wire (16-18gauge) and run it from the positive battery post to the positive side of the coil. This basically bypasses the starter selonoid wire temporarily. Start the car with the key, see if it runs. If is does, wiring elsewhere in the ignition itself is an issue, if it doesn't run, something else is still amiss.

 

[core]

Dana44 I did what you said with the wire and it started and idled just find. I made the mistake of bring my dog with me to the barn and with those open headers that dog jumped out of its skin. For that matter so did I.
So by installing the wire does that mean I need to keep the ignition control and ballastar?
Thanks for the help.

 

[dana44]

Not necessarily. What it means is there isn't any power getting from the starter selonoid (the positive battery post attaches to the big copper post), and then one of the small wires runs to the key switch, the key switch back to the ballast resistor as a dark blue wire, so whateve is connecting to that dark blue wire isn't getting power from the alternator, this jumper wire bypasses that wire. So, look at the wiring diagram you have or type in 72 Dart wiring diagrams, you will find one of the easier wiring diagrams to follow, she isn't staying running because the alternator isn't being put into the circuit most likely. There are about four wires (start at the battery to the starter selonoid) and work through routing to the key and then key out to the alternator, coil and distributor, your distributor wiring should show how to bypass the ballast resistor, it just ins't getting power from the alternator somewhere.

 

[core]

I'm going to check everything out this weekend.
Thanks again

 

[dana44]

OK. Basically the alternator has to be kicked in so power continues after the initial key power starts the engine.

 

[68RT]

OK. Basically the alternator has to be kicked in so power continues after the initial key power starts the engine.

Actually the dark blue wire you refer to is getting it's power from the ignition switch and also turns on the alternator. The alternator can be off and you still have ignition or the engine would die if the alternator failed. The diagnosis you recommended is correct and now he needs to find out why he is not receiving power from the ignition.

 

[core]

I have spent most of the day trying to figure out this wiring. The MDS diagram wiring is different from the chrysler book. I have tryed both ways and still nothing. does anyone have a simple wiring diagram for some one who has no clue what they are doing?

 

[dana44]

Start with the 72ish Dart wiring diagram, you can get them online. Get that wired in first, and from there, see if there is anything from MSD that shows or recommends the wiring necessary to wire an early Mopar. Others have done it, MSD themselves may have a suggestion if you can't figure out what you have.

 

[core]

I have cut the brown wire free from the ballast and connected it onto the coil, per MSD instructions. Talking to a teck at MSD he told me that I would not need the ballast or the electronic ignition control. So I have cut them free from the nest of wires.
I have no clue where to connect the blue wire that came off the ballast, does anyone know what that should attach to? The book says it comes from the starter ingintion switch. Before it was removed from the ballast it ran out to several other blue wires. one ran to the altinator and another to the voltage regulator. I have cut free all the other blue wires. A green wire comes from the voltage reg and goes to the alternator.
The book shows a black wire also going to the alternator and connecting to the power wire. Is that correct?
I have tried ever way to wire this motor that i can think of,but no luck.
The only way it will start is with dana44 jumping out the distributor trick. I did notice that when i jump out the distributor the key buzzer sounds. That is the only time I have been able to make it do that.

 

[dana44]

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=msd+wiring+diagram+for+mopar&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=msd+wiring+diagram+for+mopar&sc=0-23&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=123D2EC33165E82D38A8F2DAB77F4FCFE2F1307F&selectedIndex=0

This is the diagram to use, it is for a Mopar electronic ignition. From there, follow your wiring diagram and you will see it goes to the positive side of the coil, along with the field wire for the alternator to the positive side of the coil. In essence they splice into other locations so only one wire goes to the coil to "excite" the running of the alternator along with powering other items.

Now, to pay attention to what you have written, the alternator has a black power wire, should run into the dashboard and connect to the amp gauge and measures the direct power, it is held onto the alternator with a nut. The other wire is a field wire, it is a female connector that connects to the male copper/steel tab that sticks off the back/side of the alternator and that wire has to go to the starter switch and positive side of the coil. (that's the jumper wire we bypassed to get her to start) This should be a brown wire and a dark green that changes color to dark blue. So here is what you do so you get the colors right, the wiring is not complicated under your hood.
Follow the above link. Then, get your wiring diagram and follow each wire from the alternator and trace them, recognizing you are removing the ballast resistor. The main things are the field wires and where they go. They tie into the coil and ignition switch and voltage regulator. Trace each connection to the end, they have the habit of changing colors at connections and branching off to power other things. It is a little time consuming, but you have to do it right, wrap it up after you get it running (which you know it will), if you turn the key on and check the coil for spark, using the starter selonoid to click it over saves a lot of time wondering if you have it or not. Keep us informed, I have spent this amount of time on an 84 Ramcharger, rewiring the whole engine bay without Lean Burn, had to figure it out and it took time.

 

[68RT]

The one thing to remember is that the wire you have connected to the ignition must be hot when the ignition is in run postion. Off when the key is off.

 

[core]

I connected the brown wire on to one side of the ballast and the blue to the other. I cut off the other wires.
The motor started and stayed running after I did that, but it idled rough and then stalled. I could not keep it going with the gas peddle and by the time I got out to the carb the motor would die.
It started shouting smoke and gas out of the carbirater and then it just died. Turning the key had no effect on it and nether did jumping out the distributor. I'm hoping it is the battery.

 

[core]

Would the electronic chock have anything to do with this problem? Before when I jumped out the motor everything worked fine.
When the motor was jumped out would the electronic chock be working?
Do I even need the electronic chock?

 

[dana44]

Either the choke stuck shut or the float has stuck open. Make sure the choke is opened and make sure to tap a couple times where the float attaches to the carb body, it may come loose.