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I don’t think he’s saying that the products should be rushed. The brands have been given 10 years to prove themselves, so by the time these new products are actually on sale, it’s far less than 10 years remaining, and it won’t be a lot of time to accumulate sales data upon which to make a decision for life vs death of a brand.

The cupboards are indeed bare, unless you’re Jeep or Ram. Though Ram probably should’ve gotten a midsize along the way. Those of us who dared question “the plans” knew it was BS.
Even Jeep and Ram were somewhat neglected:
  • midsize Ram lacking
  • Ram DT still reliant on huge discounts and DS for added volume (COVID changes this somewhat)
  • JL was a milder update than expected, Bronco caught them off guard (too many believed the "show pony" story)
  • Grand Wagoneer spent way too long as a "coming soon" product
  • New Grand Cherokee was later than it should have been.
 

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I'll believe it when I see the the Airflow released as a Chrysler. Stellantis has 14 brands, which is about 8 too many. The mid-price/premium car is dead. The only other US equivalent is Buick, which is down to three generic CUVs.. The 300C is in its 19th model year looking pretty much the same, and the Pacifica, like its earlier namesake seems tobe tailor made for Madge to take her bridge club to Denny's for the early bird special. This alleged Airflow won't be available for two or three years. Just let Chrysler die.
Wow. Who whizzed in your Wheaties?
 

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I don’t think he’s saying that the products should be rushed. The brands have been given 10 years to prove themselves, so by the time these new products are actually on sale, it’s far less than 10 years remaining, and it won’t be a lot of time to accumulate sales data upon which to make a decision for life vs death of a brand.

The cupboards are indeed bare, unless you’re Jeep or Ram. Though Ram probably should’ve gotten a midsize along the way. Those of us who dared question “the plans” knew it was BS.
Ford will be selling over 300,000 products in North America on its C2 platform under the Escape, Bronco Sport, Maverick and Corsair.

There you have the template to make Dodge, Jeep, Ram and Chrysler products in one plant.

Let's face it, FCA left the company way behind and absent in many market segments. Stellantis has to play catch up and cannot afford failure.
 

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Ford will be selling over 300,000 products in North America on its C2 platform under the Escape, Bronco Sport, Maverick and Corsair.

There you have the template to make Dodge, Jeep, Ram and Chrysler products in one plant.

Let's face it, FCA left the company way behind and absent in many market segments. Stellantis has to play catch up and cannot afford failure.
I feel as though the biggest drawbacks to the FCA era, after the first few years, was that it was all "binary thinking". Until the merger with PSA, it felt like "we release an absolute hit, or nothing at all". 200 was actually a decent vehicle. It was small for it's class, but the fact that it and Dart weren't flying off the lots at full price caused a premature demise. Thankfully the engineers secretly (based on the articles from Allpar IIRC) pushed Hellcat to ludicrous power levels out of the gate. I think Hellcat would not have the notoriety if it was "just" over 600hp. Ford and Chevy would have been able to leapfrog them instantly.

Iterative improvement is mandatory in this day and age, and I never understood why they never got that. They should have just started marketing 200 as a chrysler's big luxury compact, rather than a small midsize. They never got a second chance. Same with Journey. The 2011 update was great. Styling was aggressive and gave off the "dodge" vibe, but not too offensive. Then it sat with pretty much no updates. When the refreshed Durango started selling, who would want to buy a Journey that got WORSE gas mileage than the bigger, faster, and all around better Durango. It got nothing, and Durango even got the better with the PUG. A mid-cycle refresh in 15/16 aligning with the Charger/Challenger refresh styling ("rounder" but still aggressive) and adding the 9 speed would have been plenty to avoid the "fleet and sub prime only" bin.

We know that the updates and products were in development. Plenty of insiders have mentioned this, some of us personally saw mules roaming about, and the 5 year plans showed what they had in the works. It must have been excruciating to be an engineer during that time.
 

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We know that the updates and products were in development. Plenty of insiders have mentioned this, some of us personally saw mules roaming about, and the 5 year plans showed what they had in the works. It must have been excruciating to be an engineer during that time.
Remember "busy work" and "filmstrip" day in school?

That is what the engineers were doing.
 
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2002 Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 with Cummins. 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Altitude
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I know this comment will upset some, but I recently parked right beside a new Bronco Sport. And I don't see what all the hoopla is. One, it's small. A current Cherokee is bigger at least on the outside. Two, it's very dated looking. It reminds me of the squared off Escape that was shared with Mazda. It may have a better AWD system, but it wouldn't take much effort to beat this car. A decent engine and better AWD system in a Compass would hands down be a better ride. Looks alone of the current generation Compass is better. Sorry Ford lovers, I'm not at all impressed.
 

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I know this comment will upset some, but I recently parked right beside a new Bronco Sport. And I don't see what all the hoopla is. One, it's small. A current Cherokee is bigger at least on the outside. Two, it's very dated looking. It reminds me of the squared off Escape that was shared with Mazda. It may have a better AWD system, but it wouldn't take much effort to beat this car. A decent engine and better AWD system in a Compass would hands down be a better ride. Looks alone of the current generation Compass is better. Sorry Ford lovers, I'm not at all impressed.
But yet in 2021 with all those flaws Bronco Sport outsold Cherokee. And Bronco Sport outsold Compass.
Granted 2021 wasn't a normal year, but it tells how behind the small Jeeps are. They need attention badly.
 

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I know this comment will upset some, but I recently parked right beside a new Bronco Sport. And I don't see what all the hoopla is. One, it's small. A current Cherokee is bigger at least on the outside. Two, it's very dated looking. It reminds me of the squared off Escape that was shared with Mazda. It may have a better AWD system, but it wouldn't take much effort to beat this car. A decent engine and better AWD system in a Compass would hands down be a better ride. Looks alone of the current generation Compass is better. Sorry Ford lovers, I'm not at all impressed.
Before I also joined Allpar, I've also been a Ford fan. I started my renderings with future Fords. I'm not impressed with Ford's lineup in the US either. They have some great cars in China and the Middle East, and they desperately need to freshen their offerings here, including gasp a sedan, or at the least a liftback. All with EV versions.
 

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I know this comment will upset some, but I recently parked right beside a new Bronco Sport. And I don't see what all the hoopla is. One, it's small. A current Cherokee is bigger at least on the outside. Two, it's very dated looking. It reminds me of the squared off Escape that was shared with Mazda. It may have a better AWD system, but it wouldn't take much effort to beat this car. A decent engine and better AWD system in a Compass would hands down be a better ride. Looks alone of the current generation Compass is better. Sorry Ford lovers, I'm not at all impressed.
I’d have to compare interior specs, but from what I’ve seen from online sources, they made excellent use of all the interior space for B Sport. That dated look, with the squared rear cargo area maximizes cargo room….something that Cherokee and Compass failed to do with their sloped rear hatches.

Yes, a better AWD system and engine would’ve made Compass and Cherokee better. We were all saying that repeatedly here, long before there was ever a thing called B Sport.

It’s not that Ford is so great or their vehicles are so much better. But from an off-road vehicle standpoint, they’ve been doing the things that we had been asking Jeep to do for years, and we were ignored by them and shouted down here.

If people are moving to Ford from Jeep, it’s not because they’re Ford lovers, it’s because Jeep drove them away, especially considering the crappy dealer experiences. I had been happily buying my Jeeps until they pissed me off so bad. I’ll still consider them, but they don’t seem to care, even when I step on the lot or enter the dealership. I’ll always love Jeep, but I’m no longer willing to be abused in return for that love.
 

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I’d have to compare interior specs, but from what I’ve seen from online sources, they made excellent use of all the interior space for B Sport. That dated look, with the squared rear cargo area maximizes cargo room….something that Cherokee and Compass failed to do with their sloped rear hatches.

Yes, a better AWD system and engine would’ve made Compass and Cherokee better. We were all saying that repeatedly here, long before there was ever a thing called B Sport.

It’s not that Ford is so great or their vehicles are so much better. But from an off-road vehicle standpoint, they’ve been doing the things that we had been asking Jeep to do for years, and we were ignored by them and shouted down here.

If people are moving to Ford from Jeep, it’s not because they’re Ford lovers, it’s because Jeep drove them away, especially considering the crappy dealer experiences. I had been happily buying my Jeeps until they pissed me off so bad. I’ll still consider them, but they don’t seem to care, even when I step on the lot or enter the dealership. I’ll always love Jeep, but I’m no longer willing to be abused in return for that love.
I've owned Jeeps almost from the time Chrysler bought them. I'll admit I've been out of the market for a time until we bought our new Jeep, but my dealer experience so far has been excellent. Actually I was quite shocked given my own experiences in the past. I'm like you though, I wished they felt the same about the smaller Jeeps like they do the bigger ones. It's not a priority to them yet.
 

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I've owned Jeeps almost from the time Chrysler bought them. I'll admit I've been out of the market for a time until we bought our new Jeep, but my dealer experience so far has been excellent. Actually I was quite shocked given my own experiences in the past. I'm like you though, I wished they felt the same about the smaller Jeeps like they do the bigger ones. It's not a priority to them yet.
I wish I had a good CDJR dealer, the ones around me are terrible. The sad thing is, I get better treatment at my Ford dealer than I do at the CDJR dealer across the street and they’re both owned by the same group. If I could buy a Jeep from Ford dealer, I would. I’m not asking for much, maybe a smile when I come in…,dare I ask for them to actually greet me? Ok, maybe that’s going too far. Lol

I have to add though, on a personal level, and this may be influencing how I see my Ford dealer more than anything. My wife and I are an interracial couple, and quite often we get vastly different service when people realize we’re together. They just treated us like family when we bought my Mustang and then the Explorer.. It’s not the brand, it’s the people, and how they make you feel that matters. I don’t think I can stress that enough, that good customer service matters.
 

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I wish I had a good CDJR dealer, the ones around me are terrible. The sad thing is, I get better treatment at my Ford dealer than I do at the CDJR dealer across the street and they’re both owned by the same group. If I could buy a Jeep from Ford dealer, I would. I’m not asking for much, maybe a smile when I come in…,dare I ask for them to actually greet me? Ok, maybe that’s going too far. Lol

I have to add though, on a personal level, and this may be influencing how I see my Ford dealer more than anything. My wife and I are an interracial couple, and quite often we get vastly different service when people realize we’re together. They just treated us like family when we bought my Mustang and then the Explorer.. It’s not the brand, it’s the people, and how they make you feel that matters. I don’t think I can stress that enough, that good customer service matters.
Why do you think you're treated differently at the Chrysler dealer when the same people own it? That's kinda on the ownership of you ask me. They should instill the same treatment regardless of the brand.
 

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Why do you think you're treated differently at the Chrysler dealer when the same people own it? That's kinda on the ownership of you ask me. They should instill the same treatment regardless of the brand.
I know where he is referring to as I have been to both quite a few times and the Mopar side doesn't treat you well at all. Foul language and dirty jokes while you're walking around looking at a vehicle in the showroom while nobody helps you. I decided to go down to the next county where they are more conservative and had amazing service even though I didn't purchase anything. I will be going back to buy from them.
 

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I know where he is referring to as I have been to both quite a few times and the Mopar side doesn't treat you well at all. Foul language and dirty jokes while you're walking around looking at a vehicle in the showroom while nobody helps you. I decided to go down to the next country where they are more conservative and had amazing service even though I didn't purchase anything. I will be going back to buy from them.
Chrysler/Dodge can have great cars, but they better shape up their dealer service to go with it!
 

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Why do you think you're treated differently at the Chrysler dealer when the same people own it? That's kinda on the ownership of you ask me. They should instill the same treatment regardless of the brand.
Yeah, it really shouldn't be different with the same ownership, and in some cases the same employees. But the difference has been night and day for some reason, granted I haven't been in for service at the CDJR dealer in a while now since I no longer have my Liberty. When I used to bring my Liberty in for service, no one would even acknowledge you were there...no smiles, no "hello". When you got up to the counter, it was an almost "what do you want" kind of response. The employees seemed very subdued, as if you could tell that no one was really happy to be there. I looked at vehicles on the lot, and no one ever came near me, even to say hello. The other dealer in our area was just as bad, if not worse. The shuttle driver was openly complaining about how far he had to drive to drop off the customers...in front of the customers.

On the Ford side, they greet you in the enclosed vehicle drop-off area. They smile, they say hello. Polite conversation. They ask you if you know where the waiting room is, and if a customer doesn't know, they show you. They text you updates, and they physically come talk to you as well. It's just little things, but they are important for customer service. When we bought our Explorer, they set my wife and our kids up at a table in the back with posters and crayons and coloring books. They got drinks and snacks for them too. They didn't have to do that, but they did it anyway. As I said, sometimes we aren't treated that well, so it's very memorable when we are treated well.

This comes down to personnel, and management. One dealership is providing good customer service, at least from my perspective, and the other isn't doing as well. I don't really see it as a brand thing, especially since I haven't been to any other Ford dealers to compare their service levels. I do think I've actually found a dealer that I like to deal with, and that's worth a lot. I haven't been overly enthused with the Buick dealer that we purchased my wife's Encore from either, and Buick is supposed to be high on the dealer experience surveys. Go figure.
 

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Ford reimburses and backs its dealers better than FCA. So where are you going to give better service?
 

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In my case the dealer ownership has been a Chrysler dealer in several states for years. This new facility cost them about 11 million so maybe they figure they better treat their customers right. Lol
 
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