Allpar Forums banner
241 - 260 of 296 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
Exactly. The timelines make me very skeptical. The merger was completely basically within the last year. We all know FCA wasn't actively developing anything for the Dodge or Chrysler brands. So now we're going to see new product in 2 years? That's incredibly short. We haven't even seen any mules running around yet. There's no pre-production models yet. I just don't see it happening.
Not publicly announcing anything does not mean nothing is happening in secret.
What if… Hornet was planned, by FCA, from the beginning along side Tonale, and it just came into the picture now?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,083 Posts
Not publicly announcing anything does not mean nothing is happening in secret.
What if… Hornet was planned, by FCA, from the beginning along side Tonale, and it just came into the picture now?
The Hornet was planned by FCA. It was in progress at the time of the merger.

It could have been killed at the last minute, as FCA has done in the past, but it went forward and I am not sure if anyone knows the full justification behind it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
It could have been killed at the last minute, as FCA has done in the past, but it went forward and I am not sure if anyone knows the full justification behind it.
What about maximizing offering to share cost?
What about Dodge’s need for a compact car?
What about the guys whom are always trolling about Dodge having only “Dinosaur” like vehicles?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,335 Posts
Not publicly announcing anything does not mean nothing is happening in secret.
What if… Hornet was planned, by FCA, from the beginning along side Tonale, and it just came into the picture now?
If it were planned from the beginning alongside Tonale the mules would be running around alongside Tonale. Still the same day late and a dollar short treatment for Dodge and Chrysler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
If it were planned from the beginning alongside Tonale the mules would be running around alongside Tonale. Still the same day late and a dollar short treatment for Dodge and Chrysler.
You don’t need 2 different mules in 2 different sheet metal to test drivetrains. It could have been testing in the US under Jeep Renegade’s body.
Dodge could have been running their own separate testing in their private test track and proven ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,083 Posts
You don’t need 2 different mules in 2 different sheet metal to test drivetrains. It could have been testing in the US under Jeep Renegade’s body.
Dodge could have been running their own separate testing in their private test track and proven ground.
Sorry, but cooling tests need to be run with the actual front grille at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
Sorry, but cooling tests need to be run with the actual front grille at some point.
Current CFD simulation minimize the real world testing. Beside, Dodge could have either been doing that in secret on their tracks and/or they’d start the public real world testing once the production version of Tonale is revealed, since Hornet is not planned to be unveiled until the end of 2022.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,083 Posts
Current CFD simulation minimize the real world testing. Beside, Dodge could have either been doing that in secret on their tracks and/or they’d start the public real world testing once the production version of Tonale is revealed, since Hornet is not planned to be unveiled until the end of 2022.
The only way you can avoid real-world testing is if everything under the skin is identical and you are just badge engineering, which we have not seen from FCA before.

I seriously doubt an Alfa and a Dodge are going to use the same suspension components. They have to be tuned differently as they are going to be sold in the same market.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: romalerig

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
I seriously doubt an Alfa and a Dodge are going to use the same suspension components. They have to be tuned differently as they are going to be sold in the same market.
It depends on the intended dynamics of Hornet.
Some shared platforms with Alfa were intended to have 2 different dynamics, a sporty European feel and an American muscle car dynamics. Some for example the compact ones could’ve been designed to offer European sporty feel similar to how Ford did with Focus when they merged their SVT and RS operations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #251 ·
Current CFD simulation minimize the real world testing. Beside, Dodge could have either been doing that in secret on their tracks and/or they’d start the public real world testing once the production version of Tonale is revealed, since Hornet is not planned to be unveiled until the end of 2022.
Hornet's production was planned to start around 5 months about Tonale. I don't know if it has changed.

Tonale should start production in late Q1 2022 with 1.5 turbo MHEV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,335 Posts
Current CFD simulation minimize the real world testing. Beside, Dodge could have either been doing that in secret on their tracks and/or they’d start the public real world testing once the production version of Tonale is revealed, since Hornet is not planned to be unveiled until the end of 2022.
Which goes back to the point in the first place. If it were along side it would go on sale at least nearly simultaneously. If it was intended to come a year or two later it wasn't side by side.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,083 Posts
Ever seen Chrysler's indoor test facilities?
No vehicle has been 100% tested using indoor test facilities.

Today, it is even more impossible with the safety features that need to be tested in real life situations on real roads.

Would you trust lane keep assistance that was only tested on a closed track with perfect lines?
Would you trust collision avoidance systems only tested with another test car on the closed track?

These things need to be tested in real world situations. Cooling can only be tested in real world situations on real roads.

Lastly, nobody owns a private test track on a mountain, where you will test climbing, handling and altitude programming.

This entire premise that a modern vehicle can come to market without being tested on public roads is a fantasy.
 

·
Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
37,450 Posts
No vehicle has been 100% tested using indoor test facilities.

Today, it is even more impossible with the safety features that need to be tested in real life situations on real roads.

Would you trust lane keep assistance that was only tested on a closed track with perfect lines?
Would you trust collision avoidance systems only tested with another test car on the closed track?

These things need to be tested in real world situations. Cooling can only be tested in real world situations on real roads.

Lastly, nobody owns a private test track on a mountain, where you will test climbing, handling and altitude programming.

This entire premise that a modern vehicle can come to market without being tested on public roads is a fantasy.
Those are all things that can be tested using a fake body shell.

They can test in perfect secrecy in their private testing facilities e.g. Chelsea, and do just the bad weather / aero testing indoors. That's all I meant to say. You'd never know they were doing it, either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,083 Posts
Those are all things that can be tested using a fake body shell.

They can test in perfect secrecy in their private testing facilities e.g. Chelsea, and do just the bad weather / aero testing indoors. That's all I meant to say. You'd never know they were doing it, either.
Again, please show me an example of a vehicle that was not tested on real roads.

Secondly, FCA needs to do MORE TESTING before putting vehicles on sale....not less!
 
  • Like
Reactions: UN4GTBL

·
Registered
Joined
·
181 Posts
Which goes back to the point in the first place. If it were along side it would go on sale at least nearly simultaneously. If it was intended to come a year or two later it wasn't side by side.
It´s not intended to come out a year or two later.
Tonale will come to market in June 2022 (SOP march 2022)
The Dodge is expected in the second half of 2022.
Let´s say 6 months after Tonale at the latest.
Considering the first mule of the Tonale was photographed in June 2021, there is still plenty time for the Dodge mules to arrive in time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,619 Posts
If not for the Cars movie that resurrected the Hornet name that AMC drug through the mud in the '70s.
My opinion only, but I think that was an unfair shot at the AMC Hornet.

I'll grant you that a lot of the mechanicals were carried over from the previous AMC Rambler American, but:

When AMC's Hornet debuted in 1970, it was well received (and well reviewed) by the motoring press of the day...and was seen as having fresh modern styling and was a more than competent competitor to any of the compacts that FMC and GM (and yes...Ma Mopar)....had on the market at the time.

If one thinks about it for a moment...AMC's Hornet could be seen as the "K-Car" of its day. Given AMC's perpetual lack of cash and resources...they were able to do a whole lot with that ONE platform.
Not only did it give birth (Caesarian Style:p:ROFLMAO:)...to the Gremlin...but that platform also ended up in several other incarnations...and was still being used in 1987 when St. Lido had the foresight to purchase AMC.
Wheel Tire Vehicle Car Automotive parking light
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,335 Posts
I think comparing a car with a lot of carry over parts and the front suspension from the AMC large cars and pathetic low sales numbers with the clean sheet K car that allowed Chrysler to buy AMC that was still building what was essentially their 1970 compact in 1987 is the unfair shot.
 
241 - 260 of 296 Posts
Top