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You're assuming things I'm not assuming. First, I'm not assuming Dodge can swap on a dime, or that Chrysler still has a major reputation for being upscale. I don't think Chrysler can go after Lexus or Mercedes any more, and anyway Alfa Romeo and Maserati are in those slots now.

You have your imaginary Chrysler and I'll have mine. I'm not getting anything backwards. I'm assuming Dodge remains performance tinged and Chrysler remains tech/comfort tinged, and neither of them magically gains enough cachet to even try to compete against Acura — which itself is one of the least luxury of the luxury brands.

There's a reason Hyundai created Genesis instead of saying, “Well, now we have Kia for the bottom end, so we'll just magically push Hyundai up.”
I'm not assuming the things you think I am. I expect them to stop their rhetoric on a dime and change their lineup over a decade. They can immediately stop calling the brands performance and people mover, those hurt the brand image and pigeon hole them in dying segments. Performance tinged and tech/comfort tinged are vastly superior to the FCA labels.

Mercedes, BMW and Volvo are moving downmarket into traditional Chrysler territory. Lexus always was there with its reskinned (originally not even that) Camrys, RAV4s and Highlanders, Acura was always there too. Infiniti is on, off again and on yet again, which also applies to Audi.

I'm not talking about the big price tag RWD Mercedes and BMW models, that is what Maserati is for. As for Alfa, prior to Giulia/Stelvio it had less brand history in the US to go after those models than Chrysler, and it showed in the sales results for those models. Alfa had a history of selling economy cars in Europe with a few high performance models thrown in, and barely selling at all in the US. Swap Europe and US in that sentence and you have Dodge, a sub Chrysler brand.

You keep bringing up Genesis, but it really hasn't caught on, it isn't a success story. Acura was just a rebadged JDM Honda for over a decade before anyone took it seriously, but Honda kept marketing it as a luxury brand. Chrysler has a better reputation to go after those BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Volvo models than Alfa did when Sergio started with it. It is going to take decades but the rhetoric can and should change on a dime.

Volvo S90 120" wheelbase = Imperial
Lexus ES/Acura TLX/Volvo S60 113" wheelbase = Concorde
Mercedes A/CLA 107" wheelbase = Sebring
Acura ILX/BMW 2 Gran Coupe/ Mini Clubman 105" wheelbase = LeBaron
Audi A3 103" wheelbase = Laser


Match the car wheelbases and you get this
Encore 101"
UX/Encore GX 104" > 103" Cruiser

Countryman/X1/X2 105"
NX 106" > 105" Duster

Corsair/GLA/XC40 107"
RDX 108" > 107" Aspen

RX/QX50/Envision/XT4 110"
Nautilus/GLB 112"
XT5/XT6/XC60 113"
QX60/MDX 114" > 113" Voyager

XC90 118"
Aviator 119"
Enclave 121" > 120" Town & Country
 

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Mercedes, BMW and Volvo are moving downmarket into traditional Chrysler territory. Lexus always was there with its reskinned (originally not even that) Camrys, RAV4s and Highlanders, Acura was always there too. Infiniti is on, off again and on yet again, which also applies to Audi.
True. But one cannot underestimate the power of perception and that is hard to change. I have seen it over and over again where someone reports that the 3 series has the same window switches as a 7 series and a Ghibli will be called out for having the same as a Dart. The BMW 3 series will be seen in a positive light, the Ghibli in a negative. And that is something I don't think you can easily change... Although I admit for Lexus it works both ways because Toyota has had such a good reputation for quality.
 

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True. But one cannot underestimate the power of perception and that is hard to change. I have seen it over and over again where someone reports that the 3 series has the same window switches as a 7 series and a Ghibli will be called out for having the same as a Dart. The BMW 3 series will be seen in a positive light, the Ghibli in a negative. And that is something I don't think you can easily change... Although I admit for Lexus it works both ways because Toyota has had such a good reputation for quality.
I agree with you.

There are two ways to avoid this:

1) Update the Maserati first and then 2-3 years later use those same switches in the Chrysler. It gives the appearance of pulling the Chrysler upmarket instead of dragging the Maserati down.

2) Use the same switch systems except have two different molds for how the switches appear to the driver/passenger. You are part sharing the most expensive piece while differentiating the outward look. You do not need a new mold for this either. You can have a single, multicavity mold that holds 20 Chrysler switches and 2 Maserati switches so you make both at the same time or you can block them to make one or the other. It is not difficult.
 

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I'm still not buying the upmarket Chrysler move. We will see where Stellantis takes it but I really hope that's not where Christine Feuell spends her time/resources.
It would take more than 10 years to take Chrysler upmarket. Look at Genesis, Lincoln and Cadillac for examples of struggling to establish an identity in the premium segment and their work is not done yet.
 

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It would take more than 10 years to take Chrysler upmarket. Look at Genesis, Lincoln and Cadillac for examples of struggling to establish an identity in the premium segment and their work is not done yet.
While establishing it upmarket will take time, it doesn’t mean they can’t deliver a product that’s worthy of being upmarket, time will tell where the brand slots overall
 

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While establishing it upmarket will take time, it doesn’t mean they can’t deliver a product that’s worthy of being upmarket, time will tell where the brand slots overall
You are correct. They need a hit in one of their first two products or the repair of damage done to Chrysler will be even more difficult.
 

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It seems like they are already pushing Chrysler up market a little with the Pacifica pricing structure/ position. If Chrysler is still to become the "people movers" brand then it's direct competitor would be Buick. Buick seems to be holding on. If Chrysler is going to "people movers" brand, in my opinion the products to need to be fun yet serious, classy yet edgy, attainable yet aspiring. Just like Jeep now has vehicles for people's lifestyles and various points in life but be something nobody was expecting (ie. 300) Chrysler has to yet again build brand equity and loyalty.
 

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It seems like they are already pushing Chrysler up market a little with the Pacifica pricing structure/ position. If Chrysler is still to become the "people movers" brand then it's direct competitor would be Buick. Buick seems to be holding on. If Chrysler is going to "people movers" brand, in my opinion the products to need to be fun yet serious, classy yet edgy, attainable yet aspiring. Just like Jeep now has vehicles for people's lifestyles and various points in life but be something nobody was expecting (ie. 300) Chrysler has to yet again build brand equity and loyalty.
Compare Pacifica to Toyota. Similar prices. That's normal minivan pricing.

Maybe "people mover" is the wrong term to use.
 

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Compare Pacifica to Toyota. Similar prices. That's normal minivan pricing.

Maybe "people mover" is the wrong term to use.
I was just using the terminology they set but it could change under new leadership.
I just used price point as a whole for the brand not just one vehicle. The Pacifica is priced higher than its comp and it stays on top with all the boxes checked. It's still a better vehicle imo but don't have much else to compare.
I just don't think they can push Chrysler to go up against Germany in terms of pricing. In value, definitely yes!
 

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Voyager starts at $27,860 (web site still has it as a retail model)
Pacifica starts at $35,820
Odyssey starts at $32,290
Sienna starts at $34,560

Maybe the 2022 Voyager is fleet only, but if so, they will almost certainly have a cheaper Pacifica.

I think Chrysler really got screwed by the dropping of Plymouth - the Town & Country Touring was just a Plymouth SXT after they dropped the Chrysler Voyager. I don't know what genius decided that every Plymouth should find a home at Chrysler, not Dodge, but any hopes Chrysler ever had of moving up, were really sabotaged by that move.

My guess is that Mercedes people demanded a much larger gap between the American holdings and their own brand, one the 300 and top-end minivans could not hope to cross.
 

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I think dropping the Dodge Caravan, the original minivan, was the greatest mistake.
 

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Voyager starts at $27,860 (web site still has it as a retail model)
Pacifica starts at $35,820
Odyssey starts at $32,290
Sienna starts at $34,560

Maybe the 2022 Voyager is fleet only, but if so, they will almost certainly have a cheaper Pacifica.

I think Chrysler really got screwed by the dropping of Plymouth - the Town & Country Touring was just a Plymouth SXT after they dropped the Chrysler Voyager. I don't know what genius decided that every Plymouth should find a home at Chrysler, not Dodge, but any hopes Chrysler ever had of moving up, were really sabotaged by that move.

My guess is that Mercedes people demanded a much larger gap between the American holdings and their own brand, one the 300 and top-end minivans could not hope to cross.
Now that Daimler has no Chrysler it is being forced to move into Chrysler territory to meet EPA fuel economy goals. Hence A, CLA, GLA and GLB in the US, something we never saw in Daimler-Chrysler years.
 

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Voyager starts at $27,860 (web site still has it as a retail model)
Pacifica starts at $35,820
Odyssey starts at $32,290
Sienna starts at $34,560

Maybe the 2022 Voyager is fleet only, but if so, they will almost certainly have a cheaper Pacifica.
Dont forget that the Pacifica gets FWD standard now with Cold weather package, Rear seat Reminder, and new Air filtration system included in base trim which also gets a $420 increase in price.

 
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