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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, I just bought a '10 T&C. Easily the nicest vehicle I've ever owned. This will be my 4th Chrysler (I personally had an 85 Omni, a 94 Shadow and a 93 Duster and my parents had an 84 Laser and 3 different Jeep Cherokees) so I'm no stranger to this brand. Looking forward to many years of comfortable cruising here.
Anyway I got a used van and it didn't come with a "real" owner's manual (the place I got it from told me, "Oh, it's all on line now.") Uh, do any of you have a paper manual in yours, would I be able to get one from the dealer or Ebay or something?
Also it doesn't have the fog lights and I was wondering how hard those are to add on. I do a lot of driving at night out in the country so I need as much light as possible. Are the factory ones worth the effort to install, or should I go right to aftermarket ones? I still have the giant Hella 500's from my Omni... not that the spouse wants me cutting holes in our new van.
Anyway thanks in advance, and it's good to be back here!



Oh yeah, "pix or it didn't happen", ha ha.
 

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DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
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In your shoes, if I had to pay for a manual, I'd get a factory service manual instead.

Oh, have you found your spare tire yet? *grin*
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys!
And yeah, I found my spare. I haven't cranked it down to actually look at it yet, but I know where it is. And looking at that PDF, I could install these myself (I did the same thing to the Nissan I traded for the van) but it says the VIN needs to be updated for it to work...really? Or is that just if they are actually installed by a dealer?
 

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The TIPM will have to be told that is now equipped with fog lights or else it won't power them up. The selling dealer should cut you a break here as you bought the vehicle from them. Have them combine it with another service like an oil change.
The Chrysler computer installs the sales code for the fog light option into the TIPM using the vehicle VIN to identify what vehicle it is addressing and make sure that the installation won't conflict with any other vehicle options or market restrictions.
I did this when I installed a remote start in my wife's '11 Liberty. The hardware installation was easy, then a trip to the dealer to tell the TIPM over the ethernet cable that it now had this option. After that it worked fine.
This seems to be the new way that electrical option installations and upgrades are done.
 

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...and is a fine way to do it too. I love the inptegration. Seeing a similar Linux based setup in teh motherboards on new office machines (copiers, etc) that do similarly. My job is much easier and they are more reliable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Can I put E-85 in here (it does have the "flex fuel" badge on the back) whenever, or do I have to wait until the tank is empty? Can E-85 get put into a partial tank? They have E at the gas station I go to and it's always cheaper.
 

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E-85 can be used in a Flex-Fuel vehicle in any concentration with regular unleaded E-10 fuel.
Your fuel economy and some power output will drop with E-85, so you may have to do some MPG math to find out if E-85 is worth your while.
It may be marginally more economical, money-wise.
 

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E85 is cheaper per gallon, but it's much less economical, taking more fuel per mile. You'll need to do some comparisons for cost to drive if you do try out E85.

EDIT: I hate it when I start a post and get distracted for an hour from submitting it...
 

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Then difference can be significant. The EPA rated your van at 17/24 and 19 combined MPG on gasoline. For E85 the rating is 12/17 and 13 combined.
 
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TWX is correct. Unless the cost of E85 is significantly lower - like less than 2/3's the price of E10, it isn't worth it. So if E10 is $3.50, E85 would have to be less than $2.35 to be economically viable. And from what I've seen, it's almost never low enough.

Around here (Mid-Atlantic region), "Flex-Fuel" is a joke. There are very few stations that carry E85. Besides, neither of my vehicles are "Flex-Fuel".

Edmunds did a test run comparing E85 to E10 with the same vehicle (a Tahoe if I remember correctly) over the same exact route. In the end, it cost more to use E85 even though it was "cheaper" at the pump. At the time, I think E10 was $4/gallon and E85 $3/gallon. While using the E85 the Tahoe at best only got 2/3's of what it normally got using E10.
 

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daan said:
Can I put E-85 in here (it does have the "flex fuel" badge on the back) whenever, or do I have to wait until the tank is empty? Can E-85 get put into a partial tank? They have E at the gas station I go to and it's always cheaper.
Here what your owners manual has to say:

For best results, a refueling pattern that avoids alternating between E85 and unleaded gasoline is recommended.

When you do switch fuel types, it is recommended that:
- you do not add less than 5 gal (19 L) when refueling
- you drive the vehicle immediately after refueling for at least 5 miles (8 km)

Observing these precautions will avoid possible hard starting and/or significant deterioration in driveability during warm up.
George
 
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On regular gas, your van is rated at 17/24(19).
On E-85 fuel, you van is rated at 12/17(13).

To go 100 miles, you'll need 5.3 gallons of gas, or 7.7 gallons of E-85.

In Illinois, average price for gas is $3.879 and E-85 is $3.299.

5.3 x 3.879 = $20.56
7.7 x 3.299 = $25.40

Save your money - use regular gas.
 

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Doesn't E85 have a higher octane rating? And and when the computer detects it it flips the timing mapping on the computer. It does create more power afaik too.. My Sebring has 2 octane maps.. It detects in the ECU and switched over when I use the recommended 91... But runs fine on 87 from some stations...
 

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I believe E85 has an octane rating between 94-96 - so a bit higher than even premium gas - but unless the engine is exclusively tuned for E85, you won't see any real power or mileage benefits.

E85 is simply not a good value for most consumers at this time, IMHO.
 

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Ethanol has only ~66% of the heat energy of gasoline, so an E-10 blend will have much more energy per amount than an E-85 blend. The higher octane number just means that it is a slower burning mixture and less susceptible to ping. Ethanol also has a voracious appetite for water (anhydrous). It is dry gas.
http://zfacts.com/p/436.html
I think that the original intent of Flex-fuel (without getting political about it) was to oxygenate fuel for emissions and to mix into the straight fuel supply to stretch our reserves in case of a fuel shortage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
E15 has been discussed and I think that most EFI vehicles since the mid-'80's should be able to handle the 5% increase. Hopefully the corn crop does well this year.
 

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ImperialCrown said:
Ethanol has only ~66% of the heat energy of gasoline, so an E-10 blend will have much more energy per amount than an E-85 blend. The higher octane number just means that it is a slower burning mixture and less susceptible to ping. Ethanol also has a voracious appetite for water (anhydrous). It is dry gas.
http://zfacts.com/p/436.html
I think that the original intent of Flex-fuel (without getting political about it) was to oxygenate fuel for emissions and to mix into the straight fuel supply to stretch our reserves in case of a fuel shortage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
E15 has been discussed and I think that most EFI vehicles since the mid-'80's should be able to handle the 5% increase. Hopefully the corn crop does well this year.
They need to quit wasting energy and the food supply to create ethanol .They need go back to straight gas if they so concerned about mileage in cars . To say nothing about the detrimental effects ethanol has on smaller engines and marine applications. They would also do everyone a favor by picking one blend of gas they make for all year and quit forcing the oil companies to waste time and energy of switching back and forth between seasons.
 

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I can see both sides here, but they also need to add oxygen to the fuel to help burn it. The days of straight gasoline for public highway use is over. Ethanol is the least risky way to add oxygen to fuel so far.
The automaker and petroleum industries and government are working closely together to evolve the fuels and the machines that burn them. Changes will happen.
 
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