[mopar56]

Today my wife and I were looking at the new Dodge Dart for her, after driving a few and making it into the sales desk for the number crunching the salesman then tried to add on the usual BS up sales that I always decline like the paint protection, undercoat, extra warranty, the usual cash grabs...but the one I would like to clear the air on (pardon the pun)is the nitrogen filled filled tires, I have a friend in the tire industry who tells me it is really just another cash grab, yeah the tires arnt supposed to loose as much air over the year, but so what, air comes free from my shop compressor. But here is the catch the salesman tells me you need to have the nitrogen because the car has sensors that detect when the air is low and will play havoc with the cars information center, yet he also tells me the car is shipped from the factory with reg air and then swapped at the dealership as an option, so if it can be shipped from the factory you should be able to use it as it came equipped correct?, I just want to confirm that before I shoot down that $100.00 cash grab to.

 

[Jeff2KPatriotBlue]

Cash grab.


300 cubic feet of nitrogen (at standard temperature and pressure) costs $8.

http://www.umass.edu/procurement/contracts/CA11-RH-4042%20-%20Pricing%20Recap%20for%20Air%20Gas.pdf

Basically there are 2 questions.

Can you measure the difference in loss between air and pure(er) nitrogen?

Yes.

Does it matter?

No.

 

[plymouth1]

Scam. Find a better dealer and/or sales person. Total garbage. I can't believe there are still dealers or sales people who try this stuff. I would have looked right at the person, told them they are an idiot, and that I will be buying the car eslewhere.

 

[KOG]

OK, racers use nitrogen for two reasons: it changes pressure less with temperature changes than "air" (which is mostly [78%] nitrogen anyway)and it's dry. Nitrogen also has larger molecules than other components of air so it leaks through a tire carcass at a slightly slower rate. After your tire is a couple of years old most of the smaller molecules have leaked out anyway and it has a higher percentage of nitrogen as a result. For street use nitrogen fill is a total scam.

 

[chuzz]

I agree with plymouth1 about finding another dealer to deal with. I'd also let the Sales Manager know that the reason I'd be going elsewhere is because of his dishonest salesman. I just got a new 200 last Thursday and they didn't try to run any of that crap on me. They did ask if I'd be interested in an extended warranty and I declined. I didn't hear any nonsense about nitrogen in the tires. What a load!

 

[ImperialCrown]

It is just a marketing gimmick and a scam. The national tire stores started with it as a premium tire package after NASCAR pushed it.
NASCAR N2 use may have a slight measurable advantage in that duty, but for daily driving not much if any at all.
How pure is that N2 anyways? The tire already has ambient air in it when it is mounted and they certainly don't evacuate the tire before filling it with N2.
When maintaining a vehicle that comes to me and the tires are low, do I add regular air if I don't have N2 or do I send them back where they got it. The N2 fill is supposed to be identified by the green plastic ring under the valve cap.
I've seen sales spiffs that try to add all kinds of nonsense to a bill. Avoid these people as the service dept. probably works the same way after the sale.

 

[mrneuro]

LMFAO @ looking for a car dealer with "honest" salesman. That's like looking for ocean-front property in Nebraska...

The N2 works well and you can go a lot longer without adding air. Is it worth the money? Well, that depends on how much you value your money and how much time you have to check your tire pressure. It's probably not worth it for anyone that has an air compressor at home.

 

[ImperialCrown]

There are automobile sales people and service advisors with integrity out there and I will patronize the ones I know.
The TPMS system is designed to work fine with regular air.

 

[24grant24]

My friend has a nitrogen compressor so I get my tires filled for free. But the difference isn't enough to be worth paying for.

 

[mopar56]

well it seems there is a over whelming response this as I believe a scam, believe it or not we went to three different dealerships in three different towns and they all push the nitrogen as do many of the tire stores, I have no problem saying no I just wanted my facts right about the nitrogen affecting the sensors before I stood my ground, we may still be a couple of months before we purchase anyway, thanks

 

[Bearhawke]

Remember the 'air' we actually breathe is already about 80% nitrogen. I too have very serious doubts about the 'nitrogen services' offered at tire places and I'm in the field.

 

[peterjon1]

The reason NASCAR uses pure nitrogen is that it expands less when heated, so their tire diameters remain more constant during a race. Since they fine tune everything for the best possible handling characteristics, consistency is extremely important to them. In a street car, I can't see any measurable benefit.

 

[mopar56]

well I went a step further and emailed Chrysler Canada to get there take on this and find out whether or not they are endorsing this practice, when I get there answer I well let you know what is was, as I said the three nearest dealers to me all do it and I am not driving any further out of town or buying a different brand so I will simply deny the nitrogen at time of purchase but I want to see the dealers reaction when I show them Chrysler,s response.

 

[mrneuro]

Read the thread again; nitrogen itself is not a scam. Telling people that they need the nitrogen because of the tire pressure monitoring is what's ethically objectionable.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

It's a scam for anyone other than a race car driver. As to air loss, I run regular air and have aluminum alloy rims, and only need to add air about 3-4 times a year, and typically am only about 2-3 psi low.

 

[mrneuro]

It's a scam for anyone other than a race car driver. As to air loss, I run regular air and have aluminum alloy rims, and only need to add air about 3-4 times a year, and typically am only about 2-3 psi low.

Bob, I respectfully disagree, but I think it mostly comes down to me seeing the word 'scam' as a bit harsher than you, rather than any technical difference between our views. I don't think it's a scam for a tire/car dealer to offer nitrous since there are benefits to it.

 

[KOG]

There may be benefits to paint sealant and upholstery protectant too. Would you consider those to be scams when the benefits are vastly overrated? I don't think anyone here is denying that there are some benefits to using pure nitrogen in tires, just pointing out that those benefits are either negligible or irrelevant for the average car owner.

 

[mrneuro]

KOG, read the previous post. I agree with everything you said, but I still wouldn't call them scams.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Bob, I respectfully disagree, but I think it mostly comes down to me seeing the word 'scam' as a bit harsher than you, rather than any technical difference between our views. I don't think it's a scam for a tire/car dealer to offer nitrous since there are benefits to it.

To me, a scam is selling something totally useless to someone. And nitrogen-filled tires, to the average driver, off a track, is in my opinion, totally useless. It's a method of extracting money from the client's wallet.

 

[Doug D]

To some degree I agree with Bob. For the average driver, it's not needed nor required. So yeah, it's somewhat of a scam. Similar to the fuel injection cleaning service dealers and shops offer. Unless your fuel system is really mucked up, it's just another money grab. Neither service (nitrogen or fuel cleaning) is truly worth it. But there are benefits to both. I usually check my air pressure every week and try to dump a bottle of Techron in the tank every few months.

I would even venture that most weekend racers would not really benefit. For the top levels of racing (NASCAR, F1, Indy) where even a small benefit can have a major impact that's measured in fractions of a second, yes, but otherwise I just don't see it.