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Well, here we go again..

They announce and introduce a vehicle, that is still under testing and not ready for production..

They could have held their horses, and waited till all the pieces fit together..
 

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To be frank, Dart is not selling as well as expected. It is not much higher than Caliber sales.

Perhaps, the GT is getting some revisions that will appear across the lineup.
 

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Chrysler's never been a great company with new vehicles, I'm waiting...

But they shouldn't have put the R/T out there just yet other than hinting at it, cause all they did was piss people off and probably push them to Civic Sis or Focus STs.
 

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Something isn't working like it should. This stinks like poor planning, bad project management, and miscommunication bw engineering and marketing.
 

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RVC said:
Something isn't working like it should. This stinks like poor planning, bad project management, and miscommunication bw engineering and marketing.
For them to still be doing final durability testing this late after it was announced, I'm guessing some weakness was found in the 2.4 powertrain that required redesigned components. I cannot imagine any other case which would have caused these delays.

Pure, uneducated speculation on my part, however.
 

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AutoTechnician said:
For them to still be doing final durability testing this late after it was announced, I'm guessing some weakness was found in the 2.4 powertrain that required redesigned components. I cannot imagine any other case which would have caused these delays.

Pure, uneducated speculation on my part, however.
If the GT suspension components are "stiffer" it could have revealed other issues. But there are too many possibilities to speculate.

The fact remains that something is remiss with new product launches at Chrysler.
 

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It seems that SM can't keep his rule of 90days introduction before the production start date..

Chrysler, in fact marketing guys, seem to rush the introduction without looking into the actual production date..

Ram HD, Dart GT and Cherokee are a few of the recently introduced but the production dates are being pushed back for the lacks of the completion of the tests or the lack of the necessary equipments..
 

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It would've been FINE if that wasn't the only [bleep]ing trim level they advertise with. Seriously EVERY COMMERCIAL has a GT/RT in it. No Rallye/SXT's, no Limited's, no Mopar '13s.

If they hadn't debut'd over a year ago, as GTs or R/Ts, we'd be fine, and people would only be complaining about not having an SRT-trim yet. That I think was the largest blunder. If they had debut'd the car as a Limited, it would've been fine.
 

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Wow. It's amazing the reactions to this.

The Dart GT is in the final stages of durability testing, looking like it will be a 2014 meaning August/Sept :(
Ralph doesn't state if that means "available to order, available to buy off the floor, or production begins." If we knew the original tweet made to Ralph, that might provide some context.

And for what it's worth, the only statement made to availability on the press release back in January - 4 months ago - was "Production of the 2013 Dodge Dart GT will begin in the second quarter 2013."

The only change made that I can see here is that it's been delayed a quarter and the change in model year from 2013 to 2014.

Focus on this...durability testing. Is that something you want them to rush though or skimp on? I would hope not, if you actually plan on buying one.

But, hey...let's just sit and complain about how Chrysler is screwing up everything and no one can do their jobs correctly without knowing exactly what all is entailed in bringing an all-new powertrain and suspension bits to market.
 

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If they haven't announced the production date, Q3 2013, nobody would have complained.

It might be right to delay the production because of a durability/reliability glitches, but is also wrong announcing products and keep delaying it in the name of more testings, or production constrains..
 

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Stratuscaster said:
Wow. It's amazing the reactions to this.



But, hey...let's just sit and complain about how Chrysler is screwing up everything and no one can do their jobs correctly without knowing exactly what all is entailed in bringing an all-new powertrain and suspension bits to market.
Strat:

Part of their "job" is to be able to estimate time to production accurately. In other companies, people get fired for delays in production.

Lack of production = lack of revenue.


Let's keep in mind that the GT is not "all-new". It picked up where the R/T left off. So, this delay is a continuation of the R/T delay.
 

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Erik Latranyi said:
Strat:

Part of their "job" is to be able to estimate time to production accurately. In other companies, people get fired for delays in production.

Lack of production = lack of revenue.


Let's keep in mind that the GT is not "all-new". It picked up where the R/T left off. So, we are talking about a delay of more than one quarter.
True...and while Strat has several valid points, I'm puzzled by the continued over promise, under deliver we seem to be getting over the last many months.
I'm sure that a part of it, is to keep folks on the hook, to prevent them from buying other brands, but a large part of it is just strange.
The 25 mpg Ram was touted in commercials over 6 months ago, they are just now getting to dealers, the Ram HD is likely to also become a 2014, 8 speed 300's and a few others come to mind as well.

It may also simply be that we are close to the rumor sources and the general public hears none of these false starts...well except for the Ram 1500...dealers out here were deluged with customers, yet had zero product and were relegated to taking names and starting a list. My dealer had 25 lost sales the first few days after the commercials started.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
Focus on this...durability testing. Is that something you want them to rush though or skimp on? I would hope not, if you actually plan on buying one.But, hey...let's just sit and complain about how Chrysler is screwing up...
Nobody is suggesting that, but I think that durability testing isn't something that came up at the last minute. It's part of the product development cycle, so its timeline and deadlines were decided a long time ago.
I don't think that saying "we're late because we have to do durability testing" is acceptable. It appears clear that it's a chain of delays that is causing this. Normally you account for those by allowing for risk buffers in your project master plan.

They are having delays, and I can accept that. What I find "odd" is that they (finally) announced the GT a couple of months ago; what, they didn't know about those delays two months ago?

So, either:
- marketing didn't and engineering did, meaning bad communication, or
- the project manager was caught with his/her pants down at the end of the program, or
- everybody knew the GT would launch later than announced, but they decided to pull a fast one on people to keep the interest up.

Take your pick, but in any case something isn't running as it should. I can only imagine the total clusterf**k that we would have if we had a full product portfolio for all brands, for global markets, and the associated rapid-fire launches that such a product development activity entails.
 

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Ha-ha!! Glad I'm not in the market for one of these either. I can't believe how unorganized/unprofessional this appears with the delays, the designation change, dropping the SRT-4, etc.
 

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Erik Latranyi said:
Strat:

Part of their "job" is to be able to estimate time to production accurately. In other companies, people get fired for delays in production.

Lack of production = lack of revenue.
You also have two major components of the all-new drivetrain coming on-line, which introduce their own set of issues in an of themselves - the 2.4L Tigershark and the 9-speed automatic. New tooling, new parts, new procedures, new challenges.

Trust me, I know all about making estimates for job completion, only to have circumstances beyond my control throw a wrench into the gears. I've also been on the receiving end of the excrement storm that gets focused on me and my team because of said circumstances - even when they have nothing to do with my team's part of the production. Procurement can't procure parts, vendor can't deliver parts, parts that are delivered are defective, replacement parts are not immediately available, parts ordered by the client are incompatible or incorrect - my team bears the brunt of it, yet we have nothing to do with any of those issues other than identifying that an issue exists and needs to be corrected.

You make an estimate - and that's what it is, an estimate - using the information you have available to you at that time. Should something change, your estimate should be revised if necessary.

Erik Latranyi said:
Let's keep in mind that the GT is not "all-new". It picked up where the R/T left off. So, this delay is a continuation of the R/T delay.
And the same bits and pieces are involved.

I won't disagree that it might be prudent to wait until your vehicle has reached a certain milestone before announcing it or showing it - and we all thought that Marchionne's 90-day rule would serve that purpose. Perhaps they've hired marketing and sales folks from the video game industry where such delays occur with even more frequency.

Regarding the durability testing - if I had to venture a guess - THAT'S where the delays are coming from. I was told by an automotive engineer working with a large automaker on a very high-performance vehicle that was eagerly awaited by consumers that the engine would blow during high-speed full-power runs around the track. Over and over again. It takes time to collect the data, analyze the problem, develop a fix, deploy the fix, replace the engine, and test it all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Now, did your fix wind up breaking something else? Do the emission controls need to get revised? Is the NVH still within spec?

I agree that it's frustrating - Ralph's :( emoticon at the end of his tweet tells me that he's not very happy with the situation, either. I just feel that some of the frustration is coming off as being a tad whiney.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
You also have two major components of the all-new drivetrain coming on-line, which introduce their own set of issues in an of themselves - the 2.4L Tigershark and the 9-speed automatic. New tooling, new parts, new procedures, new challenges.

Trust me, I know all about making estimates for job completion, only to have circumstances beyond my control throw a wrench into the gears. I've also been on the receiving end of the excrement storm that gets focused on me and my team because of said circumstances - even when they have nothing to do with my team's part of the production. Procurement can't procure parts, vendor can't deliver parts, parts that are delivered are defective, replacement parts are not immediately available, parts ordered by the client are incompatible or incorrect - my team bears the brunt of it, yet we have nothing to do with any of those issues other than identifying that an issue exists and needs to be corrected.

You make an estimate - and that's what it is, an estimate - using the information you have available to you at that time. Should something change, your estimate should be revised if necessary.

And the same bits and pieces are involved.

I won't disagree that it might be prudent to wait until your vehicle has reached a certain milestone before announcing it or showing it - and we all thought that Marchionne's 90-day rule would serve that purpose. Perhaps they've hired marketing and sales folks from the video game industry where such delays occur with even more frequency.

Regarding the durability testing - if I had to venture a guess - THAT'S where the delays are coming from. I was told by an automotive engineer working with a large automaker on a very high-performance vehicle that was eagerly awaited by consumers that the engine would blow during high-speed full-power runs around the track. Over and over again. It takes time to collect the data, analyze the problem, develop a fix, deploy the fix, replace the engine, and test it all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Now, did your fix wind up breaking something else? Do the emission controls need to get revised? Is the NVH still within spec?

I agree that it's frustrating - Ralph's :( emoticon at the end of his tweet tells me that he's not very happy with the situation, either. I just feel that some of the frustration is coming off as being a tad whiney.
But the more experienced or "seasoned" your engineering team is, the more accurate your estimates, as they have been down this road before.

Either marketing is driving public communication (which is scary) or engineering does not know its left testicle from its right. (channeling my inner Bob).

We know Marchionne pushes everyone very hard. Inexperienced people tend to become 'yes' men while more experienced push back.

Either way, this is undesirable in a high-profile company such as Chrysler.

As an outsider, looking in, they need a gatekeeper. Someone who can act as that interface between management, engineering and marketing.....someone who can bring some reality to the process.

Management approves, engineering provides estimates and marketing wants to broadcast. If you had someone in the middle, looking at the situation soberly, they could be the gatekeeper between engineering's optimistic goals and marketing's enthusiasm to promote the product.

Actually, marketing needs someone who can also act as a gatekeeper between management and engineering. Advertising the Dart as having Alfa DNA was a mistake as well as advertising the Cherokee as "capable".

They need someone to bring some sobriety to the process.
 
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