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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,
Am new here , a look since few week on some forum for common problem on NO SPARK on w-150 and a don鈥檛 find why my truck have no spark !

I explain my problem to you:
Have a 1989 dodge w-100 318 manual but a swap too a 1991 360 w-150 automatic ( take from junk 馃槙, complete harness PCM ) still have a manual tranny on truck !
New parts : (restored harness) cap spark-plug , wire spark-plug , spark plug, complete distributor, battery, starter , map sensor, coil, fuse link delete , rebuilt injector , fuel pump and more..

truck turn ( starter relay work ) and all working ( wiper , flasher , light, radio etc..)

NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ( no codes when a turn key ON/OFF/ON/OFF/ON/OFF )
A jumperring hall effect sensor 2 and 3 no spark from coil
Jump ASD RELAY red to green and fuel pump work but never stop
Have 8v on orange hall effect sensor
Coil + have 0v when not jumpping

thanks for help am loss now 馃槩
Thanks Eric
 

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Hi everyone,
Am new here , a look since few week on some forum for common problem on NO SPARK on w-150 and a don鈥檛 find why my truck have no spark !

I explain my problem to you:
Have a 1989 dodge w-100 318 manual but a swap too a 1991 360 w-150 automatic ( take from junk 馃槙, complete harness PCM ) still have a manual tranny on truck !
New parts : (restored harness) cap spark-plug , wire spark-plug , spark plug, complete distributor, battery, starter , map sensor, coil, fuse link delete , rebuilt injector , fuel pump and more..

truck turn ( starter relay work ) and all working ( wiper , flasher , light, radio etc..)

NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ( no codes when a turn key ON/OFF/ON/OFF/ON/OFF )
A jumperring hall effect sensor 2 and 3 no spark from coil
Jump ASD RELAY red to green and fuel pump work but never stop
Have 8v on orange hall effect sensor
Coil + have 0v when not jumpping

thanks for help am loss now 馃槩
Thanks Eric
Automatic to manual, keeping the automatic ECM?
Fusible link delete ???

Methinks this project was more of a dare than a plan.
 

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Keep the PCM (automatic) but am manual transmission
That drawing is showing you how to repair a fusible link, not eliminate it.

The ECM is probably looking for a signal from the automatic transmission, as well. You can go manual to auto pretty easy. Auto to manual, not so much.

Replace the missing fusible link and it'll run.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That drawing is showing you how to repair a fusible link, not eliminate it.

The ECM is probably looking for a signal from the automatic transmission, as well. You can go manual to auto pretty easy. Auto to manual, not so much.

Replace the missing fusible link and it'll run.
Yes this picture is for example! A cut this section for a fuse box
 

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. . . The ECM is probably looking for a signal from the automatic transmission, as well. You can go manual to auto pretty easy. Auto to manual, not so much. . . .
In 1991 the automatic transmission was still hydraulically controlled and hydraulically shifted. The only computer control was activation of a solenoid which allowed hydraulic pressure to engage a torque converter clutch and allow upshift into overdrive 4th gear. Placing a manual transmission behind an engine with ECM expecting an automatic transmission, the CHECK ENGINE lamp would illuminate with code 37; open circuit in torque converter lockup solenoid circuit.

I am thinking that between 1989 and 1991 there is a subtle difference(s) in the wiring harness and / or ECM pinouts for the vehicles. It would take scrutiny of detailed wiring diagrams for both model years to determine if there are differences. Any difference in wiring function could very well be the culprit that is preventing spark.
 

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Not too subtle a difference - the 1989 uses a SMEC, with two boards and two connectors inside the housing; the 1991 uses a SBEC, with everything on one board and so one connector.

RwP
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In 1991 the automatic transmission was still hydraulically controlled and hydraulically shifted. The only computer control was activation of a solenoid which allowed hydraulic pressure to engage a torque converter clutch and allow upshift into overdrive 4th gear. Placing a manual transmission behind an engine with ECM expecting an automatic transmission, the CHECK ENGINE lamp would illuminate with code 37; open circuit in torque converter lockup solenoid circuit.

I am thinking that between 1989 and 1991 there is a subtle difference(s) in the wiring harness and / or ECM pinouts for the vehicles. It would take scrutiny of detailed wiring diagrams for both model years to determine if there are differences. Any difference in wiring function could very well be the culprit that is preventing spark.
I will try to find diagrams of the two years! but I am not any check engine that turns on even with the on / off / on / off / on method!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
In 1991 the automatic transmission was still hydraulically controlled and hydraulically shifted. The only computer control was activation of a solenoid which allowed hydraulic pressure to engage a torque converter clutch and allow upshift into overdrive 4th gear. Placing a manual transmission behind an engine with ECM expecting an automatic transmission, the CHECK ENGINE lamp would illuminate with code 37; open circuit in torque converter lockup solenoid circuit.

I am thinking that between 1989 and 1991 there is a subtle difference(s) in the wiring harness and / or ECM pinouts for the vehicles. It would take scrutiny of detailed wiring diagrams for both model years to determine if there are differences. Any difference in wiring function could very well be the culprit that is preventing spark.
I observed that pin 85 (ground) is negative when the key is off and positive when the key is on ! What can do this ?
 

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. . . I observed that pin 85 (ground) is negative when the key is off and positive when the key is on ! What can do this ? . . .
. . . . Pin 85 (ground) on what device???? What are you testing? . . .
. . . . Sorry ! On ASD RELAY . . .
The ASD (automatic shut down) relay has 4 pins that are used. #85, #86, #87, #30. Pins #86 and #85 form the control side of the relay and #30 and #87 form the load side of the relay. When you turn the ignition key switch to the ON / RUN position there is 12 volts present at pin #86. Pin #85 will also have 12 volts and is the path to the PCM (powertrain control module). The PCM will ground and complete the circuit between pins #86 and #85 when the PCM receives a signal from the distributor that the crankshaft is rotating. That causes the relay contacts on the load side of the relay to close.

When the load side relay contacts close constant battery power at pin #30 passes through to pin #87 and onto the coil, electric fuel pump. See attached image.

Slope Parallel Rectangle Font Circle
 

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. . . I will try to find diagrams of the two years! but I am not any check engine that turns on even with the on / off / on / off / on method! . . .
I found some detailed references that show the PCM pinouts for 1989 and 1990 - 91 model V8 engines. There are differences.

This is a reference a forum contributor langstonjones made in October, 2020. Post #8 shows an image of the 60 way connector #1 pinouts at the PCM for a 1989 Dodge D150 V8.

Missing 12v from ignition coil positive

At this link is a reference to a wiring diagram for a 1990 Dodge Ram V8. This would be similar to a 1991 engine configuration. Look for post #2 dated Sep 16, 2004. There is a file named scan.pdf which is the wiring diagram that you can download.
Dodge Van B250 5.2L Auto Only 1 injector working - ECU...

This shows the 60 way connector at the PCM. Comparing 1989 and 1990 connectors, Chrysler changed the wiring harness and the pins do NOT match in function. To get this 1991 engine to run in a 1989 vehicle you are going to need to trace and probably swap additional wiring harnesses to get the wiring control correct.

As contributor RalphP made in post #8 the change from a 2 board connector to a single board connector happened between 1989 and 1990. In the diagram for 1990 PCM pinout the instrument panel CHK ENG lamp is wired to pin #32 at the PCM. On the 1989 wiring diagram the CHK ENG lamp is wired to pin #59 at the PCM. Needless to say you have a challenge ahead of you with these major wiring differences.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I found some detailed references that show the PCM pinouts for 1989 and 1990 - 91 model V8 engines. There are differences.

This is a reference a forum contributor langstonjones made in October, 2020. Post #8 shows an image of the 60 way connector #1 pinouts at the PCM for a 1989 Dodge D150 V8.

Missing 12v from ignition coil positive

At this link is a reference to a wiring diagram for a 1990 Dodge Ram V8. This would be similar to a 1991 engine configuration. Look for post #2 dated Sep 16, 2004. There is a file named scan.pdf which is the wiring diagram that you can download.
Dodge Van B250 5.2L Auto Only 1 injector working - ECU...

This shows the 60 way connector at the PCM. Comparing 1989 and 1990 connectors, Chrysler changed the wiring harness and the pins do NOT match in function. To get this 1991 engine to run in a 1989 vehicle you are going to need to trace and probably swap additional wiring harnesses to get the wiring control correct.

As contributor RalphP made in post #8 the change from a 2 board connector to a single board connector happened between 1989 and 1990. In the diagram for 1990 PCM pinout the instrument panel CHK ENG lamp is wired to pin #32 at the PCM. On the 1989 wiring diagram the CHK ENG lamp is wired to pin #59 at the PCM. Needless to say you have a challenge ahead of you with these major wiring differences.
Okay ! Need to switch wire pin from bulkhead connector or on PCM (60 pin) connector? Have in 1991 parts : PCM , harness , engine . Everything else is 1989
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The ASD (automatic shut down) relay has 4 pins that are used. #85, #86, #87, #30. Pins #86 and #85 form the control side of the relay and #30 and #87 form the load side of the relay. When you turn the ignition key switch to the ON / RUN position there is 12 volts present at pin #86. Pin #85 will also have 12 volts and is the path to the PCM (powertrain control module). The PCM will ground and complete the circuit between pins #86 and #85 when the PCM receives a signal from the distributor that the crankshaft is rotating. That causes the relay contacts on the load side of the relay to close.

When the load side relay contacts close constant battery power at pin #30 passes through to pin #87 and onto the coil, electric fuel pump. See attached image.

View attachment 81559
ASD Relay

Key on:
Pin:30 12v
Pin:85 12v
Pin:86 12v
Pin:87 0v
( yes no ground to pin 85 ,, really 12vdc )

Key off:
Pin:30 12v
Pin:85 0v
Pin:86 0v
Pin:87 0v

No battery:
continuity between pin 86 and ground , same for pin 87
 

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ASD Relay

Key on: Pin:30 12v Pin:85 12v Pin:86 12v Pin:87 0v ( yes no ground to pin 85 ,, really 12vdc ) . . .
#30 has 12 V potential at all times because it is connected to charging system; battery positive terminal.
#85 has 12 V potential with power from ignition key switch in the ON / RUN position
#86 has 12 V potential with power from ignition key switch in the ON / RUN position
#87 has zero V because no current flow through cotrol coil; load side contacts remain open

The PCM must receive a pulsing signal from the distributor pickup that indicates the crankshaft is rotating. If pulsing signal present then the PCM will ground #85 terminal of the ASD relay and cause the load side contacts to close
and power the ignition coil and fuel pump.

When the ignition key switch is initially turned to the ON / RUN position the PCM will ground #85 terminal for 1 - 2
seconds and waits for the pulsing signal frin the distributor. If no pulsing signal received the PCM opens the circuit #85 to ground so the ASD relay load side contacts open.

This is normal situation and expected.

Key off: Pin:30 12v Pin:85 0v Pin:86 0v Pin:87 0v . . .
No power from ignition key switch so #85, #86, #87 show no voltage potential. This is normal and expected.

. . . No battery: continuity between pin 86 and ground , same for pin 87 . . .
This proves the circuitry involved with pin #86 is finding a path to ground. Wire integrity good. Pin#87 is finding path to ground through the ignition coil windings and the windings of the fuel pump. Wire itegrity good.

I reviewed the wiring diagrams associated with today's #14 post. These are pinouts for the 1989 PCM and 1990 - 91 PCM. Besides the wiring pins located in different pathways of the PCM connector (you are using the 1991 PCM harness) I found that the 1989 PCM harness uses 42 of the total 60 way paths. The 1991 PCM harness uses 43 of the total 60 way paths in the connector. So there is 1 circuit that the 1991 PCM needs that is not being supplied somewhere in the harness that connects to various sensors, etc.

. . . Need to switch wire pin from bulkhead connector or on PCM (60 pin) connector? Have in 1991 parts : PCM , harness , engine . Everything else is 1989 . . .
Are you meaning the bulkhead connector at the firewall? Pin #60 on the 1990 - 91 diagram is the auto idle speed motor located on the throttle body. Pin #60 on the 1989 diagram is vehicle cruise / speed control. These are 2 completely different functions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
#30 has 12 V potential at all times because it is connected to charging system; battery positive terminal.
#85 has 12 V potential with power from ignition key switch in the ON / RUN position
#86 has 12 V potential with power from ignition key switch in the ON / RUN position
#87 has zero V because no current flow through cotrol coil; load side contacts remain open

The PCM must receive a pulsing signal from the distributor pickup that indicates the crankshaft is rotating. If pulsing signal present then the PCM will ground #85 terminal of the ASD relay and cause the load side contacts to close
and power the ignition coil and fuel pump.

When the ignition key switch is initially turned to the ON / RUN position the PCM will ground #85 terminal for 1 - 2
seconds and waits for the pulsing signal frin the distributor. If no pulsing signal received the PCM opens the circuit #85 to ground so the ASD relay load side contacts open.

This is normal situation and expected.



No power from ignition key switch so #85, #86, #87 show no voltage potential. This is normal and expected.



This proves the circuitry involved with pin #86 is finding a path to ground. Wire integrity good. Pin#87 is finding path to ground through the ignition coil windings and the windings of the fuel pump. Wire itegrity good.

I reviewed the wiring diagrams associated with today's #14 post. These are pinouts for the 1989 PCM and 1990 - 91 PCM. Besides the wiring pins located in different pathways of the PCM connector (you are using the 1991 PCM harness) I found that the 1989 PCM harness uses 42 of the total 60 way paths. The 1991 PCM harness uses 43 of the total 60 way paths in the connector. So there is 1 circuit that the 1991 PCM needs that is not being supplied somewhere in the harness that connects to various sensors, etc.



Are you meaning the bulkhead connector at the firewall? Pin #60 on the 1990 - 91 diagram is the auto idle speed motor located on the throttle body. Pin #60 on the 1989 diagram is vehicle cruise / speed control. These are 2 completely different functions.
if all the result obtained on the multimeter is good and in the normality for de ASD Realy ! Do I have wire to move in the bulkhead of the firewall? What is the next step ? What can cause the lack of spark ?
 

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. . . .if all the result obtained on the multimeter is good and in the normality for de ASD Realy ! Do I have wire to move in the bulkhead of the firewall? What is the next step ? What can cause the lack of spark ? . . .
I do not understand which wire you think you need to move in the bulkhead of the firewall?

In post #14 I gave references to 2 wiring diagrams; one for 1989 and one for 1990 - 91. You need to print out both diagrams. Start with the 1990 - 91 diagram and check and find the counterpart pin with the same color wire and description on the 1989 diagram. It will be in a different pin location. Check all pins on the 1990 - 91 diagram. You will find one on the 1990 - 91 diagram that is NOT on the 1989 diagram. Identify that pin. It may be the solution to a no spark condition.

To create spark in this throttle body injection, the PCM must receive a timed pulse signal from the distributor. When the PCM receives this pulse, it interrupts the current flow (removes the ground) from the primary circuit in the ignition coil. Interrupting the electrical current flow in the primary winding causes the collapsing magnetic field to induce a high voltage current in the secondary ignition coil winding. This high voltage current then travels through the spark plug tower, to the distributor center port, onto the rotor coil under the distributor cap and to the appropriate spark plug tower which carries high voltage charge to the appropriate cylinder spark plug. The high voltage arcs across the spark plug tip and fires the air - fuel mixture.

You need to check the wiring and distributor pickup and make sure it is generating proper pulses. No pulses from the distributor then there will be no spark. It is also possible that the distributor pickup sensor is generating pulses but internal circuitry has failed in the PCM and it cannot control the ground for the coil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I do not understand which wire you think you need to move in the bulkhead of the firewall?

In post #14 I gave references to 2 wiring diagrams; one for 1989 and one for 1990 - 91. You need to print out both diagrams. Start with the 1990 - 91 diagram and check and find the counterpart pin with the same color wire and description on the 1989 diagram. It will be in a different pin location. Check all pins on the 1990 - 91 diagram. You will find one on the 1990 - 91 diagram that is NOT on the 1989 diagram. Identify that pin. It may be the solution to a no spark condition.

To create spark in this throttle body injection, the PCM must receive a timed pulse signal from the distributor. When the PCM receives this pulse, it interrupts the current flow (removes the ground) from the primary circuit in the ignition coil. Interrupting the electrical current flow in the primary winding causes the collapsing magnetic field to induce a high voltage current in the secondary ignition coil winding. This high voltage current then travels through the spark plug tower, to the distributor center port, onto the rotor coil under the distributor cap and to the appropriate spark plug tower which carries high voltage charge to the appropriate cylinder spark plug. The high voltage arcs across the spark plug tip and fires the air - fuel mixture.

You need to check the wiring and distributor pickup and make sure it is generating proper pulses. No pulses from the distributor then there will be no spark. It is also possible that the distributor pickup sensor is generating pulses but internal circuitry has failed in the PCM and it cannot control the ground for the coil.
sorry I misunderstood for the connector ! I will check all diagram maybe a make misstake on the bypass on tranny sensor ( auto to manual )
 
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