[RVC]

Since this information has now been officially revealed during the "Ferrari day", we can finally confirm without the shadow of a doubt what was until now mere (though well grounded) speculation: the block for the Maserati 3.0 produced at Ferrari is indeed a version of the Pentastar, that was developed starting in 2010.

Norm had the down low on this one a good while back
Dave: as you see, Chrysler's contribution and the provenance of shared components will not be hidden or removed as you feared. Maybe things need to progress at the necessary pace. In all honesty IMO this is the right marketing/communication strategy (for once), and in the long run it will be a win-win.

Google translate this short report (with pictures) from a visit at the actual Ferrari production facility in Maranello:
http://www.alvolante.it/news/motore-v6-maserati-306067

 

[Dave Z]

That's pretty interesting. The Maserati guy was so firm about the engine being "pure Maserati."


THANK YOU

 

[drew54]

Translated

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alvolante.it%2Fnews%2Fmotore-v6-maserati-306067&act=url

 

[sebring96hbg]

This is great news. This shows a very efficient use of resources within the entire group while maintaining brand differentiation.

 

[paullybob]

That's pretty interesting. The Maserati guy was so firm about the engine being "pure Maserati."


THANK YOU

Just as Daimler said the new SLR was PURE Mercedes...pure arrogance is what that is!!!

 

[superduckie5000]

A Quote: "If the bases of the new three-liter V6 comes directly from the United States (the architecture is that of the Chrysler Pentastar engine family)".

The Question: Does Base = Engine Block ?

However: You Never Ever, Ever, Ever, Ever Guess Where the Block May Be Sourced at !

TMD

 

[FreeLantz]

Hey Juergen, this is how a partnership should work!

 

[superduckie5000]

Now Look at and Study This Pic. in the alVolante.it Report.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alvolante.it%2Fnews%2Fmotore-v6-maserati-306067&act=url

Then Go Look at a Pic of a 3.6L Block. (It's Not that Hard to Find Some)

Any more Questions ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

TMD

 

[MoparNorm]

Thanks RVC!
I knew my source was solid.

 

[auric]

Now Look at and Study This Pic. in the alVolante.it Report.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alvolante.it%2Fnews%2Fmotore-v6-maserati-306067&act=url

Then Go Look at a Pic of a 3.6L Block. (It's Not that Hard to Find Some)

Any more Questions ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

TMD

http://immagini.alvolante.it/sites/default/files/styles/image_gallery_big/public/news_galleria/motore-v6-maserati_2.jpg

http://www.pentastars.com/photos/factory/block.jpg
or
http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Chrysler-Pentastar-Oil-Cooler.jpg

 

[RVC]

A Quote: "If the bases of the new three-liter V6 comes directly from the United States (the architecture is that of the Chrysler Pentastar engine family)".

The Question: Does Base = Engine Block ?

However: You Never Ever, Ever, Ever, Ever Guess Where the Block May Be Sourced at !

TMD

Yes, it means block, the translator is very iffy for example the very first phrase translated becomes "ENGINE DAMAGE THAT WORK", when in Italian it says "ENGINES THAT [CREATE] JOBS"... Go figure, lol.

As for where it comes from, I'm all for being educated! Can you see it from where you are sitting?

 

[RVC]

That's pretty interesting. The Maserati guy was so firm about the engine being "pure Maserati."
THANK YOU

Maybe they were involved in the specific development/mods for the 3.0 version?
If you think about it, it could make sense since that particular engine (the entire thing, not just the block) is a ground up design that started back in 2010, and I'd imagine that you need to have some specific features in the block in order to install their heads (I'm thinking about the ducting for cooling and lubrication) and the rest of the innards (seats, etc).

I heard from another source a few months ago that the tolerances used for the maserati V6 and V8 in some cases exceed (as in being more precise) those of some Ferrari engines. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that they are very pumped (410hp for the V6 is not the roof) and that they need to be reliable for X hundreds thousand miles. That's another thing I heard, they are supposed to be indestructible...time will tell.

 

[RVC]

Now Look at and Study This Pic. in the alVolante.it Report.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alvolante.it%2Fnews%2Fmotore-v6-maserati-306067&act=url

Then Go Look at a Pic of a 3.6L Block. (It's Not that Hard to Find Some)

Any more Questions ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

TMD

Definitely familiar

In the two pictures referenced by auric you can spot a few differences: much thicker cylinder walls, more machined areas around and between the cylinders, and around the cooling areas closer to the wall.
If we could see the sides, especially the other one, you would see more differences (location of the exit for the filter IIRC), and especially a shot form above would reveal more differences.

TMD, can you tell us if the design for this 3.0 block is the same one that will be used for some Chrysler/Jeep/FIAT applications?

 

[LILCES]

A Quote: "If the bases of the new three-liter V6 comes directly from the United States (the architecture is that of the Chrysler Pentastar engine family)".

The Question: Does Base = Engine Block ?

However: You Never Ever, Ever, Ever, Ever Guess Where the Block May Be Sourced at !

TMD

if true then tran 10 or 12 are in speed works

 

[MoparNorm]

Yes, it means block, the translator is very iffy for example the very first phrase translated becomes "ENGINE DAMAGE THAT WORK", when in Italian it says "ENGINES THAT [CREATE] JOBS"... Go figure, lol.As for where it comes from, I'm all for being educated! Can you see it from where you are sitting?

No, Ducky cannot, but someone in Indiana can....

if true then tran 10 or 12 are in speed works

Not at this time...

 

[MoparNorm]

Maybe they were involved in the specific development/mods for the 3.0 version?
If you think about it, it could make sense since that particular engine (the entire thing, not just the block) is a ground up design that started back in 2010, and I'd imagine that you need to have some specific features in the block in order to install their heads (I'm thinking about the ducting for cooling and lubrication) and the rest of the innards (seats, etc).
I heard from another source a few months ago that the tolerances used for the maserati V6 and V8 in some cases exceed (as in being more precise) those of some Ferrari engines. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that they are very pumped (410hp for the V6 is not the roof) and that they need to be reliable for X hundreds thousand miles. That's another thing I heard, they are supposed to be indestructible...time will tell.

The clearances of the Maserati engines exceed the Ferrari engine because the Pentastar tolerances exceed the Ferrari engine...
It really is a new way of engine building and it did not initiate from 2010, or Maserati, Maserati Engineers simply know a good thing when they see it.
Maserati uses the Chrysler block and engine theory, much of everything else is theirs.

 

[Dave Z]

Someone in Indiana or perhaps in Greater Detroit...

I figure ZF is working on an 11-12 speed gearbox somewhere, in the very initial planning stages, not wanting to be left behind.

The Pentastar design was complete long before 2010. However, I will agree that the 3.0 Maserati-Ferrari variant has major differences from the standard ones, you'd really hope so given that they're generating what, 400 hp?

This is a major big deal, acknowledging that they used the Pentastar as a starting point, ... just as I would assume Mercedes is on their newest V6 engines.

 

[MoparNorm]

I figure ZF is working on an 11-12 speed gearbox somewhere, in the very initial planning stages, not wanting to be left behind.

Of course, ZF is, just not at Chrysler, at least not actively. It certainly is in the planning stages, but for the moment, there is too much work to be done perfecting the 9 and 8 speeds, build the plants, and plan production.
Once all of the above is completed and running smoothly, then the work on future transmissions will,become more serious.

It will take Ford and GM about 2-3 years to get their imaginary 10 speed up and running, by then, perhaps it will be time.

 

[RVC]

The clearances of the Maserati engines exceed the Ferrari engine because the Pentastar tolerances exceed the Ferrari engine...
It really is a new way of engine building and it did not initiate from 2010, or Maserati, Maserati Engineers simply know a good thing when they see it.
Maserati uses the Chrysler block and engine theory, much of everything else is theirs.

Norm, the tolerances I was referring to are not related to the raw block but to the machining precision and especially the moving parts; material expansion/contraction/stress resistance (heads, crank, turbos, pistons, beams, seats, etc), flow dynamics, etc.
I know about the new techniques, about the spray-on liners etc, but I don't think this is the case (and if you look at the pictures you can see that the blocks have been machined, they are not really "ready-to-go" out of the foundry).

What's interesting to them on the block side is weight, materials, architecture, cooling, resistance. They wanted a "container" that was spawn from a modern project and that could take both the power and the abuse of a high strung engine: It's obvious that when they saw the pentastar block they recognized they had something perfect for their project on their hands!

The Pentastar design was complete long before 2010. However, I will agree that the 3.0 Maserati-Ferrari variant has major differences from the standard ones, you'd really hope so given that they're generating what, 400 hp?

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dave :~
Of course I know that the pentastar project started way before 2010! I was referring specifically to the 3.0 variant

Yes, 410, but from what I hear that's not the limit, it can go higher than that.

 

[MoparNorm]

Norm, the tolerances I was referring to are not related to the raw block but to the machining precision and especially the moving parts; material expansion/contraction/stress resistance (heads, crank, turbos, pistons, beams, seats, etc), flow dynamics, etc.
I know about the new techniques, about the spray-on liners etc, but I don't think this is the case (and if you look at the pictures you can see that the blocks have been machined, they are not really "ready-to-go" out of the foundry).
What's interesting to them on the block side is weight, materials, architecture, cooling, resistance. They wanted a "container" that was spawn from a modern project and that could take both the power and the abuse of a high strung engine: It's obvious that when they saw the pentastar block they recognized they had something perfect for their project on their hands!

That is all true, The tolerances I was referring to are the same, but those machining processes are also true of the Pentastar AND the casting tolerances are indeed something special as well.