[Sir Moses Wellington]

Okay, so after having the car for about a week, I realized it really didn't have any power. At all. That was back in April. I have a 91 Daytona, 2.5L Turbo motor. When I put my foot down in 1st or 2nd, the car would shake pretty violently, was far from putting my head back in my seat, etc. It was pretty bad. Along with that, the boost gauge was only registering about 2.5 psi, although I could sometimes get it to go above 2.5, but that was only after I replaced the fuel filter in the back and ran it on 91 octane, I've been running it on 87 the whole time I've had it with one exception. Even free reving the engine in neutral in place, as far as I remember, never being able to get it over about 4 psi on the guage.

Anyway, my dad and I after some tooling and looking around, figured the motor was probably not timed correctly, and after checking everything up, we figured out the cam was one tooth counterclockwise off. We corrected that problem tonight, and now when I free rev the motor it easily goes over 5, I got it over 7 too. When I drove it, it felt like it was faster, more confident and less likely to stall. But while driving, it would not go above 5 psi of boost, even in 1st gear and flooring it, and then it would continue to drop down to around 2.5 psi slowly from there, with continued throttle being held pretty far down.

So it's running better now, but my question is what is going on with my motor? Is it not boosting up to 7 psi because I am only running 87 octane and the knock sensor is keeping it from boosting any higher than that? Or is there something wrong with my wastegate or computers? I talked to my friend who knows a bit about turbos, and he said it might be my wastegate is stuck open or is sticky and not opening like it should. Could this also be an issue with my vehicle? Thanks in advance. Oh, and I also adjusted the distributor, which was really advanced since the time I got the car, probably to compensate for it being a tooth off. I think I have it about right, but I'm not sure.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

Vacuum hoses can also be a problem, old, hardened ones tend to bleed off the vacuum which I know does control some of the turbo functions. When was the last time the whole engine was completely tuned up with air filter, plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, and the gap checked? PCV and vacuum lines are the other items to check, along with movement of the turbo components to make sure they are moving.

Only had the car since May, a lot of the lines look factory, but some are replaced. The engine was rebulit about 5000 miles before I got the car. Spark plugs and wires were replaced somewhat recently, that is obvious. Distributor cap and rotor, who knows, but I'm sure they were replaced as well with the rebuild. Air filter is a reusable K&N, I cleaned it out, re-oiled it, put back in. Air cleaner box and the hoses and stuff look like they are replaced, they look too new to be factory, but maybe they are. Replaced one vacuum hose that looked sucked shut, that helped slightly before I got the timing back on track.

I did check the codes back when I hadn't yet adjusted the timing, all I had were electrical system issues. I recharged the battery and all the codes disappeared, so they were all due to low battery. I will check again though.

Thankfully my dad worked on these when he was still a Chrysler tech, so these engines are kinda his thing, but the turbos he has no idea about, he never messed with anything related to the turbos, but we have no idea if the lines are set up correctly.

Spark plugs are pretty grey-white, which with how advanced the distributor used to be, I am in no way shocked. But they are still in good shape, shouldn't need replaced for awhile yet. I think I'll just wait until I get the car moving with a full tank of 91 in it and see if it goes up to 7 psi or so. And is it really 11 max psi for a 91 Turbo 1 motor?

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

Torque isn't boost. The torque comes from the stroke of the crank/piston assembly. I thought that all T1 engines limited boost to 7psi.

It may be limited to 7, but he might be right too, I'm not sure.
This is from the Allpar 2.2/2.5 Turbo page.

"The wastegate control strategy was revised, providing initial boost at a lower speed, and more boost at medium and high speeds. The engine had 150 horsepower at 4,800 rpm, with 180 lb-ft of torque (measured on premium gas). Boost calibration changes in 1991 added 2 horsepower and a full 30 lb-ft of torque, so the motor produced 152 horsepower and 211 lb-ft of torque at the same speeds."

I'm not entirely sure what that means if I'm honest.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

Okay, I haven't had it up too high in the rev range yet since the timing adjustment (since I'm only running 87), but I did manage to pull off above 5 psi today, looks like it got to or close to 7. Figured it might as well get new plugs, got some Champions and put them in. Got some Sylvania ultra halogen sealed beams, or whatever the mark on them is, but the step up from regular halogen. Just waiting for the sun to go down, and I'm going to go fill it up with 92 octane and see what she does from there. Maybe I'm all good for now.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

Also make sure your exhaust system is good. A plugged up Cat can cause a lot of problems with it not boosting right.

Well, funny story about my exhaust...I'll have to take pictures and upload them. I don't know what they were thinking (whoever put it on) but do I ever want it off...

And after driving it, I have to say the new headlamps really did a major improvement on my lighting. I used to be in the dark, for lack of a better term. Now it's as good, if not better, than the amount of light I get out of my Sebring. I feel my Sebring is in need of new bulbs after I finish repairing it's headlights.

Got 92 octane near my place and I still had just above the gas light of 87 left in the tank. It pulled harder, but not that noticeably so, but it's really cool tonight here. I have no idea what I had my engine turning (tach works intermittently), but it was rather high, and it read 10 psi and it kept steady for a few seconds before I backed off. I might have been able to get it higher...but I don't think I want to, especially without knowing even relatively how many revs I have it at. I haven't really had it accelerate at low speeds (like pulling out), but at low speeds it feels a bit gutless still and doesn't feel like it's spinning the tires sort of power.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

Update: Was driving it today, and it has an aftermarket temp gauge in it, on the A pillar, along with a fuel/air mixture gauge (the latter is not hooked up). Anyway, normally the gauge reads around 210, or on 210, no matter what. Well, after about a mile or 2 of driving it on the highway after some more than normal places I stop, the gauge shot up to over 250 by that gauge. Brought it home, looked like the coolant was low, so refilled it to the max level. Adjusted the timing again, using the method above (or attempting, I'll have to get it to 12 later and use a timing gun to make sure). Anyway, adjusted the timing, first run out, had retarted it too much, ran with less power than it did before the cam timing adjustment, but still boosted fine. Right back home, adjusted the timing again, and it ran the best I have ever seen it. Didn't get to pay much attention to the boost though, overheating forced me back home after another short trip up the road. Drove it carefully, ran the AC so the fan was blowing full blast, it only got up to 230 this time, but still. Done for tonight, think I'm going to change the thermostat and the coolant lines, they feel a bit gummy.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

I have yet to set the timing with a timing light, I'll have to pull the airbox and everything out, which isn't exactly what I wanted to do. I have yet to run in like I normlally do, which is light since I added more coolant and adjusted the ignition timing. I'll go drive it again soon, but I might not.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

When the engine is warmed up and you drive it, might want to smell the overflow and see if it smells like gas or oil along with the antifreeze smell, make sure a head gasket hasn't started carbon tracking leaking.

Checked the coolant, pulled all the plugs. No sign of oil in the coolant, no sign of antifreeze on the plugs, or even oil on the plugs. That was one of the things I thought it might be too, since it got that hot so quickly.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

I ordered in a thermostat, new radiator hoses, etc. I'll fix that and see if it's going to work okay then. I had overheating troubles with my GTX for quite awhile until I got the correct thermostat.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

Update: Dayco does not make the correct lower radiator hose, which is what just about everyone had. Had to find a NAPA to get the correct one, put all the hoses on and clamped em, sealed the thermostat housing with the new termostat and ran the car. As far as I can tell, I got all the air out of the engine, cause it's running cooler than it ever did. COuldn't get it to stay above 195, it would go a little above and then drop off back almost to 180 when the fan kicked in. So that problem is fixed, I believe.

Adjusted the ignition timing. It is different from your air box Bob, and it looks like mine is more in the way of the timing window. After a good bit of looking around, I finally managed to find the notch in the flywheel...it wasn't easy to spot. I adjusted it to 10 just to see what it would do, and it ran perfectly fine. I'll adjust it to 12 later, I'm not using the vehicle for work and it's not getting much drive time on it, and I think once I get these last gremlins out, I'm selling it. I'm not a fan of turbo engines, I think I'll be looking for a 92 or 93 and not putting out for any car until I find a good one. Just looking for a 2.5 or 3.0L NA motor, no turbos. 3.0L, auto or stick is fine, but if it's a 2.5, I want the stick.

Another thing to note, yet again it is barely boosting above 2.5 psi (on my factory boost gauge anyway). It certainly feels better, but it felt a bit more powerful when it was overheating. I'm guessing a vacuum leak is at hand, as you have suggested, and I may have found where it is (partially anyway).

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

Okay, here are my engine pictures.

First is just an overall look at the engine.

Next, is a look at the hose. It's the bent one. If I squeeze it, I can hear air escaping or a vacuum leak or something, and I don't even have to squeeze hard. Does anyone know the name of this hoses and/or what the part number would be?

And lastly, I have no idea if my hoses on top are even remotely correct, can you guys tell if they are? I certainly can't. THis is how I got the car.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

Thanks for the info DCTZ, got the same info today basically. Magically, they managed to find what we hope is the correct part for a Turbo 1 2.5, and ordered it in through the dealership. Best service I ever got at that dealer by far...hopefully it's right. Got a print out of a diagram, but it's not as nice quality as yours I don't think. And I'd redo the hoses, but I'm dumping this car after I get it running correctly or as close to it as I can manage. It's at least already far better than it was when I got it.

 

[Sir Moses Wellington]

After replacing the 4-1 plastic piece that comes off the vacuum line in the intake manifold, it runs better. But not by a whole lot. More pull, smoother, sounds different from what it used to, still only going up to 5 psi boost on my gauge, obviously I have no idea what it is actually pulling. I will be re-checking the ignition timing, I have a feeling I read it wrong and it's too advanced (over 12 even, but I thought I had it at 10, we'll see).