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My brother is the opposite of you @aldo90731. He has a 124 on order and never looked at a Challenger. He wanted a small, fun car. The Challenger is much bigger than he would want.

I am simply glad that both exist as an option.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I have nothing against the tastes of anyone, it seems that anotother person introduced this argument, not me.
More different cars are in the market, better for the different tastes of different persons.

It looks like that someone else, not me, looks like to complain about all what is out of "average" tastes, all that is out of borders of a certain (supposed) "orthodoxy".

And as old 124 Sport Spider, about 75% of sales were made in U.S.A..

In Europe we are luckier since with per car homologation we can drive more different vehicles than a U.S.A. citizen.
Seriously? Do you get from telling my personal choice that I was "complaining"? And I still don't understand what is your fixation with my use of the word "average". I said it already, re-read what I wrote.

BTW, YES you seem to have issue with consumers who do not share your tastes. Just read what you wrote above. You are judging American consumers simply because they do not share your European "orthodoxy".

Every time I point out something about Fiat, you take it as a personal affront. Unless your name is Sergio, I suggest you relax a little.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Honestly, if you set a Challenger SRT8 in Sport Mode -- where the stability control is calibrated to assist the car with drifting. A twisty mountain road (with no traffic obviously) -- would be a ton more fun with a Challenger....... The aftermarket does offer Challenger convertibles, too -- but they are really expensive.

Indeed. You can have fun in pretty much anything if you know how to drive it. I even enjoyed taking my manual transmission Rubicon 2-door on twisty roads for similar reason: it was a hoot to feel the weight of the vehicle shifting on the curves and correcting it without touching the brakes, simply by shifting and pressing and releasing the gas. Was I going to win an race? No. But sure was a lot of fun.
 
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Seriously? Do you get from telling my personal choice that I was "complaining"? And I still don't understand what is your fixation with my use of the word "average". I said it already, re-read what I wrote.

BTW, YES you seem to have issue with consumers who do not share your tastes. Just read what you wrote above. You are judging American consumers simply because they do not share your European "orthodoxy".

Every time I point out something about Fiat, you take it as a personal affront. Unless your name is Sergio, I suggest you relax a little.
Before suggesting the others what to do better to look at the mirror.
Maybe is You that has the fixation with Fiat and "Sergio". ;-)

And about the use of the word "average", maybe sometimes is better to speak of segmentation of the automotive market, and not just always speak about "average" market.
Why? Fiat 124 is a type of car at which are interested a restricted part of customers, if looking at customers is the analysis.

"Average" has few meaning without the associated the object of the "average".
Too many here continue to say that "You non U.S." don't understand that...", "don't know thant ..." while in reality maybe someone is just projecting his/her preferences, or of the group of cars enthusiasts, to a supposed "average" U.S.A. customer.

So why there are some U.S.A. citizens that buy a Toyota Prius and other U.S.A. citizens that buy a Ram 2500 as daily driver?
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
You need not take things to extremes. No one said no Fiat 124 or Miata in the US market, but if you understand the US market only a small percentage will see value in that type of car. The sales reflect that. It is neither right or wrong, just a difference in preference between US and Europe.
Indeed. 124 Spider has many things to overcome from a sales perspective:
  1. Being a 2 seater restrics demand for those vehicles to minuscule numbers. Everything being equal, the general rule of thumb is: take demand for a sedan; remove 2 doors and you end up with 10%. If you then remove the rear seat you end up with 10% of that. So, for instance, if demand for sedans is roughly 20% of the market, or about 1.4 million at current volume, demand for coupes is about 140,000 units. If you then take out the rear seat you end up with 14,000 units. Those 14,000 units need to be shared by Miata, CR-Z, 124 Spider, and everything else out there that has two doors and two seats.
  2. By sharing Miata underpinnings, Fiat has to compete against a better-established nameplate, sold by a dealer network known to sell roadsters. Every article I read while I shopped for a Fiat Spider compared it against Miata, and 9 times out of 10, they gave the nod to Miata. Personally, I prefer the Fiat styling and sound better than that on the Mazda. But for every Fiat I found, there were five Mazdas I could choose from, with more variety in colors, equipment and prices.
In fairness, Challenger also gets pitted against Mustang and Camaro, and from a Sports Car perspective, Challenger gets hammered on comparisons against those two. But at least Challenger is not based on either of those, and has its own set of USPs to offer.

When I had my 2012 Challenger SRT, it was tiring to read article after article hammering Challenger. Since the 2015 redesign, with the much improved interior, the addition of Scat Pack, which many consider the sweet spot in the Challenger lineup, the media has changed its tune. Pretty much every review I read gives Challenger credit for being something Mustang and Camaro are not: a truer muscle car interpretation.

The verdict of reviews now seems to be: if you want a sports car, get a Mustang or a Camaro; but if you want a muscle car, it doesn't get any better than Challenger.
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
My brother is the opposite of you @aldo90731. He has a 124 on order and never looked at a Challenger. He wanted a small, fun car. The Challenger is much bigger than he would want.

I am simply glad that both exist as an option.
For sure.

I started looking at Fiat 124, Mazda Miata, Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger. The only thing I purposely excluded was Camaro: I just can’t deal with that cramped interior and the Elton John dashboard. And I didn’t bother with Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ, nor anything from Germany.

At some point I was down to the Fiat, the Ford and the Dodge. But I knew if I got the 124, after six months I’d be regretting not getting a V8.

When it became between a Mustang and a Challenger, to me, the Challenger offered the best overall value, even with its $10,000 premium over a Mustang GT due to its greater road presence, interior comfort, cargo room, ride quality, those 485 ponies, that glorious HEMI sound, etc.

But I still haven’t closed the deal; I don’t want to jinx it.
 
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