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Chrysler Corp side had and still has a "reputation" for unreliable cars and it's still afloat, why shouldn't they try? I mean, Fiat was exceeding in small/fuel efficient cars 2009, trying to reintroduce it was not lack of common sense, it didn't work, but it was a valid attempt.
Dodge and Chrysler didn't have the reputation of being driven out of the US market due to poor reliability. All of the US brands had the reputation of poor reliability, yet Dodge and Chrysler in their worst years outsold Fiat in its best year in the US. Bringing Fiat to the US was a massive blunder that was completely foreseeable. It does no good to pretend otherwise.
 

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Also from the article:

"At the helm of Stellantis, Carlos Tavares seems to want to quickly revive the Italian manufacturer since the project of a new Giulietta is on track with the next Peugeot 308 unveiled in March 2021 as the technical basis. Finally, this turnaround appears to be of implacable logic. Alfa Romeo is present in the United States and not in China, and the reverse for Peugeot."

This is exactly where Alfa needs to go in the US. Go after the Golf/GTI. Alfa is remembered fondly in the US, but not as expensive high powered vehicles. Alfa needs to start at $25K, not $40K.
Not sure about Giulietta. AFAIK L'argus is still talking about what can be under feasibility study. And I wouldn't exclude that Giulietta is just another X2-like crossover and not a sedan or a classic hatchback. I there will be next gen Giulietta.

And having so many different platforms would only make a headache for dealerships.

Price? Don't look further than Audi or BMW. Audi A3.
 

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If he fixes the Chrysler and Dodge lineups first, then by all means he can try and relaunch Peugeot. Hopefully, he can learn from the disastrous relaunch of Fiat. They needed every bit of help to launch them, and gave them no help. No extended warranties for piece of mind, nothing.
I think that FCA branch of Stellantis already has Dodge fix in the hands. ;)
 

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Rebadging Chrysler gets desperately need product into showrooms 2-3 years sooner than reskinning it. This would really only work with 408, 508, DS9, 3008, 4008, 5008. The others are not well proportioned for the US.

2017-2019 to turn 208 into Opel Corsa. The difference here is there are no Peugeot and DS models for sale in the US, so they can keep the sheet metal and change the nose and tail for a few years.
The issue are interior, infotainment, engines, crash test standards.

It's not such easy operation as was 208-Corsa.
 

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A car the size of a Fiat 500 should have been marketed as a fuel economy, entry level car and been geared and designed as such. "Sporty" was not the right call. "Abarth" was right out!!
50 MPGs on the highway, affordable, and it would have sold to those looking for that type of mileage, IMO.
I mean, Fiat was exceeding in small/fuel efficient cars 2009, trying to reintroduce it was not lack of common sense, it didn't work, but it was a valid attempt.
AFAIK, the 500 aerodynamics is better for city economy, highway is sedan's bright spot.
Some observations on fuel economy.
1. Fiat fuel economy stinks
2. 50 hwy on EPA tests requires a hybrid
3. Sedans, hatchbacks and wagons can all have good aerodynamics, but the ultimate is an Ioniq/Prius style liftback.
4. Modern small turbo engines with multi speed transmissions work just fine. The Fiat 1.4T isn't among them.
5. Fiat cars shaped like a 50 year old Italian Kei cars have poor aerodynamics. The 500 would have had to be 6" longer to be similar to the Mirage.


Fiat 500 1.4 27/33/29 6 sp premium
Fiat 124 25/36/29 6 sp premium
Fiat 500/500L 1.4T 24/32/27 6 sp/6 sp DCT premium
500X 1.3T 24/30/26 9 sp regular * lowest fuel cost of all Fiats*
500L 1.4T 22/30/25 6 sp premium
500X FWD 2.4 22/30/25 9 sp regular
500X AWD 2.4 21/29/24 9 sp regular

2012 competition
Scion iQ 36/37/37 1.3 CVT
Smart 34/38/36 1.0 5 sp DCT
Versa 30/37/33 1.6 CVT
Fiesta 29/38/32 1.6 6 sp DCT
Focus 28/39/32 2.0 6 sp DCT
Civic 28/39/32 1.8 5 sp
Mazda 3 28/39/32 2.0 6 sp
Elantra 28/38/32 2.0 6 sp

2021 competition
Ioniq Blue 58/60/59
Prius Eco 58/53/56
Elantra Blue 53/56/54
Insight 55/49/52
Corolla hybrid 53/52/52
Camry hybrid LE 51/53/52
Sonata Blue 50/54/52

Mirage 36/43/39
Mirage G4 35/41/37
Elantra 33/43/37
Accent/Rio 33/41/36
Civic sedan 1.5T 32/42/36
Corolla hatch 32/41/35
Versa 32/40/35
Elantra/Forte 31/41/35
Civic hatch 1.5T 31/40/34
Coralla sedan 31/40/34
 

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Should Fiat and Alfa give the new admin a big pause on going down the same road? I know Peugeot has been around a lot longer than Chrysler...but not in the US. Not only is it hard to pronounce...its hard to spell. That alone spells failure here. LOL.
Seriously IMO, it would be better to just rebrand them Chrysler's..otherwise expect middling sales like Alfa.
Not so hard to spell as Citroën (since English has no diacritical marks these days, and there's no e umlaut in German - it would literally be redundant - to borrow for the dieresis on my German keyboard. There is however the English International Keyboard, which works by shift+'', e). The only thing that spells failure here with foreign brands is not delivering the goods. What you and lots of the hard core Mopar guys, who tend to be older, forget is you're probably not the market for Peugeots. Heck, I'm 48, farm kid from "Graham Trucks" country, and I'm not in the market for a Peugeot back here in 'Murica. If I was living in Germany, possibly different story (more likely Opel). Now, a nice, lightly used 2020 Giulia QV...mmm, yeah, in a couple of years. OK, minimum five at this rate.

Also from the article:

"At the helm of Stellantis, Carlos Tavares seems to want to quickly revive the Italian manufacturer since the project of a new Giulietta is on track with the next Peugeot 308 unveiled in March 2021 as the technical basis. Finally, this turnaround appears to be of implacable logic. Alfa Romeo is present in the United States and not in China, and the reverse for Peugeot."

This is exactly where Alfa needs to go in the US. Go after the Golf/GTI. Alfa is remembered fondly in the US, but not as expensive high powered vehicles. Alfa needs to start at $25K, not $40K.
If for any reason, to develop a customer base. I see Giuliettas all over Germany. Not in numbers anywhere near German brands, but still.

With all due respect, and I mean that, I'd be rich if I received money everytime I've heard that in the past. I'll be the first to congratulate you if you're right.
Well, understandable, but my thinking is they've been waiting for the merger to complete. Can't spend money on a Charger replacement or CUV before that, then it's "go time," is my guess on their business case. Saying they haven't been developing vehicles these days with the technology available is like saying the US DoD didn't have Contingency Operations Plans for [pick a named operation] ready to be dusted off and modified for the actual event that transpired. Heck, the USAF recently announced that they "built" a flying stealth aircraft trainer in cyberspace in 2 years using in-house computing systems and programs. Think about the ramifications that ability would have for safety testing alone.
 

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Not sure about Giulietta. AFAIK L'argus is still talking about what can be under feasibility study. And I wouldn't exclude that Giulietta is just another X2-like crossover and not a sedan or a classic hatchback. I there will be next gen Giulietta.

And having so many different platforms would only make a headache for dealerships.

Price? Don't look further than Audi or BMW. Audi A3.
The platform solution for small cars is EMP1/CMP and EMP2. Giorgio is small midsize like Giulia and up. Parts distribution problem is solved when Chrysler and Dodge get models on the same platforms.

Alfa doesn't have the reputation in the US to command Audi/BMW margins.
 

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The issue are interior, infotainment, engines, crash test standards.

It's not such easy operation as was 208-Corsa.
Interior only requires a steering wheel, infotainment a reflash, the Prince engine a retune, and they will need to add some high strength steel to get good IIHS scores, a common mid cycle upgrade for many cars in the US.

Not as easy as Corsa, but not much more difficult.
 

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The platform solution for small cars is EMP1/CMP and EMP2.
Uhm, not true. You'll see. Small Wide is still very much alive. I can say as much.

Interior only requires a steering wheel, infotainment a reflash, the Prince engine a retune, and they will need to add some high strength steel to get good IIHS scores, a common mid cycle upgrade for many cars in the US.

Not as easy as Corsa, but not much more difficult.
If they want to make a proper up to date product with topography optimization and all computational development it's not so simple. Making half arsed effort would be easy. I agree on that.

Even changing infotainment is not so simple.

But a lot of tome would take to put FCA engine and powertrain into it.

P.S.
EP engine is POS.
 

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Chrysler Corp side had and still has a "reputation" for unreliable cars and it's still afloat, why shouldn't they try? I mean, Fiat was exceeding in small/fuel efficient cars 2009, trying to reintroduce it was not lack of common sense, it didn't work, but it was a valid attempt.
Because it'll cost billions, cause further delays to profit center vehicles (Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Chrysler) and most likely fail. Something that expensive needs to be a for sure win, as it sits right now it would be a for sure lose and they can't afford that.
 

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The most logical next step in the U.S. would seem to be utilizing the new corporation's vast resources to rebuild and expand the existing brands' product portfolios in this market. I think Chrysler and Dodge could both be salvaged and utilized to increase market share if they were properly positioned and supported with appropriate products by the corporation (I don't think Jeep and RAM are in danger since both brands have essentially carried FCA in the U.S. market). Attempting to launch the Euro brands (Peugeot, Citroën, DS, Opel, Vauxhall) in the U.S. would seem to be much more of a risk than rebuilding the existing brands.
 

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The most logical next step in the U.S. would seem to be utilizing the new corporation's vast resources to rebuild and expand the existing brands' product portfolios in this market. I think Chrysler and Dodge could both be salvaged and utilized to increase market share if they were properly positioned and supported with appropriate products by the corporation (I don't think Jeep and RAM are in danger since both brands have essentially carried FCA in the U.S. market). Attempting to launch the Euro brands (Peugeot, Citroën, DS, Opel, Vauxhall) in the U.S. would seem to be much more of a risk than rebuilding the existing brands.
Exactly. Key words being "properly positioned," and that should apply to all brands.
 
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They've got two formerly mainstream US brands in Dodge and Chrysler which are almost completely devoid of product and have a wide and established dealer network. Why on earth wouldn't they do a mild restyle and launch all their European product as Chrysler and/or Dodge here?

Frankly guys, I'm more convinced than ever that both Chrysler and Dodge are DOA with Stellantis. Even the new leadership would rather not launch Peugeot product in North America at all than fold it into the Chrysler or Dodge brands.
 

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From the beginning I did not see the point of reintroducing FIAT or Alfa Romeo in the US, only using their technology on US Dodges and Chryslers, to get the product they needed. Peugeot here was an anomaly like Renault. Cars that had virtues that only Europeans and somewhat quirky Americans (in very limited numbers) appreciated. Their claim to fame was very comfortable seats and good ride for their size, but they were not day to day reliable. I don't see any long term market for ANY of them here, with the possible exception of Alfa Romeo. Dodge and Chrysler have enough brand equity so that the investment has a good chance of paying off, but re-introducing any of those brands is a senseless waste of capital. I say NO, emphatically. The time to bring back these long gone Euro brands was about 25 years ago. The market is packed with cars that sell well following a certain boring formula perfected by the Asian makes. I don't see Peugeot being able to compete with that.
 

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Frankly guys, I'm more convinced than ever that both Chrysler and Dodge are DOA with Stellantis. Even the new leadership would rather not launch Peugeot product in North America at all than fold it into the Chrysler or Dodge brands.
It really depends on if they're auto sales to grab outside of RAM and Jeep. All you really hear about Chrysler and to a lesser extent Dodge is that throw product that doesn't fit into Jeep and RAM into Chrysler or Dodge. That really doesn't make a very arousing business case, especially if sedans and small cars never make a comeback.
The emissions regulations that will be imposed by the upcoming administration will basically kill Dodges current business model, unless Dodge becomes a high performance electric brand positioned lower than Maserati. Chrysler needs to go electric and become a better version of Tesla.

What space the Chrysler and Dodge traditionally occupied in the past doesn't exist anymore, so they have to find a new reason to exist.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
It does not matter if they launch Peugeot or revive Chrysler......the MOST IMPORTANT thing they need to fix is the use of cheap, unreliable parts and improve the customer service delivered by the dealer network in North America.

If those things are not made the highest priority, then bringing a brand back to North America or reviving a North American brand will surely fail faster than Fiat and Alfa failed.
 
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