Allpar Forums banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
'00 + '01 + '03 + '04 300m and '01 Ram
Joined
·
279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Maybe this was something that I discovered or read in the past, and then forgot, but I was changing the oil in the 300m yesterday and tried a PH8a and it seemed that there was plenty of clearance for it. Original-size filter is PH16 I think (shorter, by about a 1/3 or even 1/2, but same diameter, screw fitting, etc).

Unless there's something I don't know, I think I'll use the 8A next oil change. Anyone else use the 8A size for the 3.5L LH cars?
 

·
Super Moderator
1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
Joined
·
22,522 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: Shane Estabrooks

·
Registered
'00 + '01 + '03 + '04 300m and '01 Ram
Joined
·
279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm not suggesting that the 5281090AB crosses to a PH8A. The 5281090AB obviously crosses to the PH16 (based on external dimensions if nothing else). What I am suggesting is that if more filter is better (from a cleaner oil, better flow, longer lengevity or even oil-cooling point of view) then there's nothing stopping the use of a PH8A - at least not for physical clearance reasons. I can't find much on the net regarding the 3.5L and alternate oil filters, but there is a Dec. 2013 thread on dodgeintrepid.net where user "bh1992" claims to use the 8A exclusively on his (I guess) Intrepid. I think he's claiming the 8A will fit both the 3.2 and 3.5L. He said: "On a 3.2 / 3.5 I have heard other people state that the longer filter won't fit but I find that to be a load of crap considering the only time my car had a PH16 size filter on it was when I bought it."
 

·
Got parts?
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
This was discussed several months ago:

Pros or cons to using a larger oil filter on 2.2 or 2.5 that came with the teacup size filter? (at https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/pros-or-cons-to-using-a-larger-oil-filter-on-2-2-or-2-5-that-came-with-the-teacup-size-filter.167851/ )

The larger size shouldn't be a major issue. You might find that the level on your dipstick might be a few hairs lower after an oil change than with the shorter filters. However, I'd been warned agains using the basic Fram filters. Some discussions on the bobistheoilguy web site show cut-outs that help explain why.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
I would never subject any of my vehicles to an orange canister of death. I admit I have used the TG series of filters, when they come with the oil change sales - but I will never use a PH series.

That being said, if you want to be cheap, I believe PH8A is a Ford filter, so you should get the Motorcraft equivalent if you're buying, say, from WalMart. They are actually a VERY high quality filter for a VERY low price. Better than the Fram TG filters. I put the Motorcraft one on my Avenger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
Maybe this was something that I discovered or read in the past, and then forgot, but I was changing the oil in the 300m yesterday and tried a PH8a and it seemed that there was plenty of clearance for it. Original-size filter is PH16 I think (shorter, by about a 1/3 or even 1/2, but same diameter, screw fitting, etc).

Unless there's something I don't know, I think I'll use the 8A next oil change. Anyone else use the 8A size for the 3.5L LH cars?
Steer away from Fram. Get MoPar, Wix or Purolator! :cool:
(Wix and Purolator make the OEM MoPar filters, BUT to a higher spec than over the counter.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,341 Posts
I have been using a PH 8 filter on my 92 Plymouth Grand Voyager LE with the 3.3 liter for many years. When using the speced PH 16 filter I can only get 4.5 quarts at the full mark. So I have a half quart laying around. With the PH 8 I can put in 5 quarts.

There are no problems with any clearance issues on this van when using the PH8 filter.

The other day I was wandering around a O'reillys auto parts store and was looking at the oil filters. Wix has something called a Wix XP which is synthetic filter media. I have been using the Purolator Pure One which is synthetic filter media.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,341 Posts
Steer away from Fram. Get MoPar, Wix or Purolator! :cool:
(Wix and Purolator make the OEM MoPar filters, BUT to a higher spec than over the counter.)

Has Chrysler changed suppliers? Because at one time the Mopar oil filters were made by Fram.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
This was discussed several months ago:

Pros or cons to using a larger oil filter on 2.2 or 2.5 that came with the teacup size filter? (at https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/pros-or-cons-to-using-a-larger-oil-filter-on-2-2-or-2-5-that-came-with-the-teacup-size-filter.167851/ )

The larger size shouldn't be a major issue. You might find that the level on your dipstick might be a few hairs lower after an oil change than with the shorter filters. However, I'd been warned agains using the basic Fram filters. Some discussions on the bobistheoilguy web site show cut-outs that help explain why.
I agree with your assessment. When I worked at Autozone several years back, my manager and I cut open a fram and found what looked like a role of toilet paper. Add to that, my father ended having to get a new engine from fram because the anti-drain back valve failed on his Mitsu 2.6 and it seized while at a long light from lack of oil pressure. Add to that my '99 LHS has 413, 000 on it and when I changed my valve cover gaskets at 400,000, the valve gear and valve cover had NO sludge build up at all, all the while running the Mopar 1090 filter. Spend the extra bucks and get a quality filter
 

·
Registered
'00 + '01 + '03 + '04 300m and '01 Ram
Joined
·
279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think the point of the thread was to discuss the use of the larger-format filter (what I call the PH-8 size) on the Chrysler 300m (LH-era 3.5L engine).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
Fram filters are junk. Take a look at what they look like inside. Read technical reviews that compare their filtration with other filters. They flow less, let larger particles through, and fail sooner. Their anti-drainback valves allow oil to pass through, and when on bypass, they allow the oil to sweep over the dirty media blowing the particulate it had caught back into the system.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,686 Posts
And yet...it's by far the dominant brand I've used for oil changes for 40 years and 800K miles of driving. Over 200 oil changes, nearly all being Fram, and not a single engine problem at all, in 7 different vehicles. One engine went 308K miles and ran like new, one went 257K and ran like new, one has 224K and runs like new....appearance does not indicate how good a filter it is.

And your statements contradict each other:
"They flow less"
"let larger particles through"
 

·
Got parts?
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
(what I call the PH-8 size)
I think the Motorcraft equivalent is FL1A. Ford used that size for many of their vehicles, and WalMart stocks them for $3.97 last I checked. When most people see PH8A, they automatically think Fram, and will react accordingly (as this thread is experiencing).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
PH16 is simply a shortened version of the PH8. If you have room and the desire pick'em.

The Purolator upgrade in the late '80s grabbed Wix' attention and they rushed back to the drawing board. Wix is the way Packard once was. They want to make the finest oil and air filters in the world. Fram lay dormant for years before they decided to pump some bucks into research and development. Fram is okay.

When one hung around auto assembly plants, especially Chrysler, parts makers and refineries as I used to do, one becomes educated. And yes. Pennzoil synthetic from natural gas is the finest motor oil one can put in a crankcase at this time. There was a time when I wouldn't use Pennzoil to lubricate a door hinge. Then Shell bought them in 2002.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
And yet... "let larger particles through"
I'm glad to hear you've had luck with them. There are superior filters to Fram that I will use instead. I am unsure when their quality went down, but it did.

Also, the media in the filter is not only not as good at filtering, but there's less of it, which does result in both lower flow AND lower filtering quality. Fewer pleats and less surface area with an inferior media, that's a losing combination!

Engine Oil Filter Study (at http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm )
 
  • Like
Reactions: DC-93

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
38,754 Posts
I'm glad to hear you've had luck with them. There are superior filters to Fram that I will use instead. I am unsure when their quality went down, but it did.

Also, the media in the filter is not only not as good at filtering, but there's less of it, which does result in both lower flow AND lower filtering quality. Fewer pleats and less surface area with an inferior media, that's a losing combination!

Engine Oil Filter Study (at http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm )
The problem is these studies rely on a visual examination of material.
If the filters are not tested for flow and filtration both new and after use, how can the study be any more than anecdotal observation?
 

·
Got parts?
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
The problem is these studies rely on a visual examination of material.
If the filters are not tested for flow and filtration both new and after use, how can the study be any more than anecdotal observation?
Visual inspection is a good start, if you know what to look for. I read that study some time ago; it's main problem is that it's now more than 15 years old. The guy has since filed an update,

Opinions and Recommendations - Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources (at http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/opinions.html )

but it's now 10 years old. Have some of the filters improved since then? Have others deteriorated?

I'd been using the basic Purolater filters for some time, but WalMart stopped stocking them about 2 years ago. I've since used the Napa ProSelect filters. The update mentioned filters better designed for synthetic oil; I'd like to see a study specifically of them, as that's what the Impala calls for.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top