Allpar Forums banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello. I'm at wits end with the Voyager. Hopeing some advanced mechanics read this and have some solutions. I have a 95 Plymouth Voyager with the 3.0 engine 4 speed. When I come to a stop the engine dont seem to idle. I've read about this all over the internet, but I have not found any solutions. No engine codes using key on/off. I have cleaned and tested with multimeter the TPS and AIS sensors. I have also replaced the fuel filter and checked for continuity from all the TCM to Trans wires. The Van will drive great, after 30-45 mins of driveing it starts the stalling issue. So that tell me heat related? Maby electrical. Im not sure what to check next. When it starts doing this it seems like vacume or bad idling, after it does it once or twice, it imediately stalls in gear unless I give it gas. Any help would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Here is something I found on Allpar thats sounds like your problem.Hope this helps.

I've read many notes and postings regarding Mitsubishi 3.0 motors with a chronic, but intermittent stalling problem when coming to a stop. No codes, no temperature correlation, no weather effects, but it seemed tied to the fast idle servo located in the throttle body, which I had looked at before and saw nothing unusual. Starting with the new 1988 Caravan, I have owned and repaired five 1988 Dodge and Plymouth Vans (Caravan and Voyager) over the intervening years totaling some 400,000+ miles in aggregate. Three had stalling problems at one time or other when coming to a stop. I even placed a pressure gauge in the fuel line in an attempt to blame the fuel pump. I broke a transmission trying to get a stalling motor going on ice and I have to admit that I never really knowingly cured this annoying characteristic until now.
I ran into an independent garage owner and race car builder one day who seemed to be quite familiar with the stalling as I described it. His hint galvanized me to take another look at the servo. He suggested that it was sticking (tight clearances in the cone valve area) due to the smog debris. He was right!
I had heard of that sticking before in connection with gasoline varnishes or deposits, which I dismissed because I knew that no gasoline was in the the throttle bell area; but the deposits, deposited in the valve by smog passages that share the valve passages, act in a subtle way, likely affected by combinations of moisture and temperature, in a stick/slip kind of way. The result was seemingly random and frustrating, as it would manifest itself at the most awkward moments, like in the middle of an intersection waiting to make a left turn.
It's been several months since the stalling. It ended immediately after solvent cleaning the fast idle servo as I indicated. (don't get solvent in the motor actuator). I hope this is helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
Here is something I found on Allpar thats sounds like your problem.Hope this helps.

I've read many notes and postings regarding Mitsubishi 3.0 motors with a chronic, but intermittent stalling problem when coming to a stop. No codes, no temperature correlation, no weather effects, but it seemed tied to the fast idle servo located in the throttle body, which I had looked at before and saw nothing unusual. Starting with the new 1988 Caravan, I have owned and repaired five 1988 Dodge and Plymouth Vans (Caravan and Voyager) over the intervening years totaling some 400,000+ miles in aggregate. Three had stalling problems at one time or other when coming to a stop. I even placed a pressure gauge in the fuel line in an attempt to blame the fuel pump. I broke a transmission trying to get a stalling motor going on ice and I have to admit that I never really knowingly cured this annoying characteristic until now.
I ran into an independent garage owner and race car builder one day who seemed to be quite familiar with the stalling as I described it. His hint galvanized me to take another look at the servo. He suggested that it was sticking (tight clearances in the cone valve area) due to the smog debris. He was right!
I had heard of that sticking before in connection with gasoline varnishes or deposits, which I dismissed because I knew that no gasoline was in the the throttle bell area; but the deposits, deposited in the valve by smog passages that share the valve passages, act in a subtle way, likely affected by combinations of moisture and temperature, in a stick/slip kind of way. The result was seemingly random and frustrating, as it would manifest itself at the most awkward moments, like in the middle of an intersection waiting to make a left turn.
It's been several months since the stalling. It ended immediately after solvent cleaning the fast idle servo as I indicated. (don't get solvent in the motor actuator). I hope this is helpful.
Even though you fixed a split hose going to the EGR valve, it still could be that the seat in the EGR valve itself is stuck open and not sealing when at idle. That will cause it to stall. Does it stumble to a stall
(i.e. rough for a moment and then stall) or does it just completely stop (stall) just before you come to a complete stop?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
AIS motor in my case.
Had similar stalling rarely only when hot at any speed on a 3.0. Most often when coming to a stop. Could usually prevent stalling by keeping the gas pedal slightly down when coming to a stop. After over 7 yrs. found that the AIS motor was the problem. Never any codes. Tried to clean the old one with much improvement. Replaced with an aftermarket unit for about $55 from a local store. Problem never returned. See pics at the link below for a similar unit. I actually bought from another store. Separate problem, had EGR hose crack but that showed check engine light and did not affect how it ran.

http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductList.aspx?parttype=506&ptset=A&searchfor=Idle+Control+Unit
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
AIS motor in my case.
Had similar stalling rarely only when hot at any speed on a 3.0. Most often when coming to a stop. Could usually prevent stalling by keeping the gas pedal slightly down when coming to a stop. After over 7 yrs. found that the AIS motor was the problem. Never any codes. Tried to clean the old one with much improvement. Replaced with an aftermarket unit for about $55 from a local store. Problem never returned. See pics at the link below for a similar unit. I actually bought from another store. Separate problem, had EGR hose crack but that showed check engine light and did not affect how it ran.

http://shop.oreillya...le+Control+Unit
I have already checked teh egr operation and its fine. I did take out the TPS and AIS yesterday. It was still giving me the same problems. Now for the first day so far, I just got back. Went for a drive for a good hour or so both highway and alot of stopping in town. Nothing. no issues. Since last night it has been snowing, so its a bit cold out. I dont know if that has anything to do with it.
Question though regarding the AIS. I tested the ohms and all was in specs. I watched a video that showed how to test its operation with a 9 V battery, but the only one I have is about dead, so It couldent move the motor. Also tho the vid I watched talked about a plunger, and pushing in the plunger. But that AIS looked different than the one I have. Although I did notice a spring under the "nipple" whatever you call it. Is that spring supposed to push it back out? It seems as if the electric motor pushes it out. Im going to look for the vids, maby it will help you guys answer the question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
The OHMs on your AIS is only telling you that the coil in the AIS is OK.Its doesnt mean that the pintle is moving back and forth all the way.
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I havent had any issues for 2 days now. I dont know why. I still and a slight egr leak which I clamped even tho it was a new hose. Like I said I did clean the TPS and AIS but I still had issue that day. Next day was fine. Still fine. Weird. All I can hope for is that perhaps the AIS freed up from cleaning it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Um, wouldn't a 1995 have the Chrysler 3.3L, a very different engine from the Mitsubishi 3.0L/

The 3.3L usually says that in big letters on the intake manifold?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
(2000 CHRYSLER Voyager 3.0) I am having the same problem exactly, however I went ahead and replaced the TPS and IAC.. Because of other work done within the last year or so I have ended up replacing the fuel pump (fuel filter is less than 3 months old) /Crank Position Sensor/ Map/ o2 (before cat) Cap and Rotor/ Ignition Switch and Coil/ Timing Belt/ Drive Belt/ Spark Wires and plugs (new plugs are a week old as of now)... I've cleaned my throttle body and air intake plenum, run SeaFoam thru the brake booster, gas tank, and oil...Even used the SeaFoam Trans Tune before I changed Tranny fluid and filter, I use K&N air and oil filters and use a transmission oil cooler and factory tow package... (run from tranny, to oil cooler, to radiator, to tow package back to tranny) KYB Gas-A-Just Shocks for the rear ect...ect.... Runs silky smooth anytime it doesn't have "this problem" (might give me problems from day to day or it may wait 2-3 days before messing up again at any speed in gear park or neutral) However I am unable to reproduce the symptoms on command... I'm not getting any codes from the on-off method, when it will finally throw a code (if ever) the check engine light will go back out after a time (3 miles-2 days) and not offer a code in memory when at the shop pulling codes that should be in stored memory.. Not sure if this would be a part of the symptoms or not but I noticed the my passenger side headlight had blown... And I mean to bits, no glass remains just metal... I'm sure there are things I've left out and I'm new to this type of communication, so I would be very thankful if anyone is willing to walk me through this nightmare... How do I check for an answer again? LoL Thanks Everyone :thumbsup:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,370 Posts
Welcome to Allpar. I would pay attention to a fault code that isn't there after a 'ck eng' light coming on.
If the PCM has lost the code, a good scan tool should tell you how many starts have occurred since the PCM was reset. If it is only a couple of starts or you get 'Battery recently disconnected' codes from the TCM or other modules, then you may want to look for an interruption of battery (+) power to the modules. This may be a wiring harness, PDC or connector issue, but it might also be an internal PCM problem. An interruption of battery power will erase code memory.
We have sometimes asked people with a lit 'ck eng' light not to turn the engine off until they could get to a facility that has a scan tool to see what is or isn't there. Due to the difficulty of diagnosing something like this, it is best if you can catch it live or look for clues left behind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Couple of days and I will have the results of the harness and PDC check.. Another question though, do you know if the 2007 3.8L will fit my 2000 body and bolt to my 41TE or know of a different engine that'll fit ? I have been putting off fixing internal issues like oil leaks and what not and have been thinking about getting a remaned crate to drop in and figured I may as well upgrade while I'm at it...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
36,951 Posts
If you have the 3.0, only another 3.0 will work. The 3.3 and 3.8 won't bolt up to your transmission. 2000 was the end of the line for the Chrysler (Mitsubishi) 3.0 used in the vans. There isn't a newer version that can be fitted in your van.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,370 Posts
The stalling and 1st gear ratio error (P0731) may not be related and would be concerning 2 separate control modules.
At the shop, it may have to 'act up' in order to have something for the technician to look for. Being intermittent, it may need a data recorder set up installed and the vehicle driven until it does act up.
The generic Autozone OBD II code reader may not have been able to get the details of the TCM fault code.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
If the reader had the ability to say "1st gear out of ratio" than AutoZone had information available to print out.. I ALWAYS have a hard time with that old man NO MATTER WHAT I happen to be in for, he's lazy and thinks he knows cars just because he was around during the consept period of the model "A".. I can't stand people that judge a mechanic on age, I've been under the hood and going to part stores since I was 8 YEARS OLD(about to turn 33 LoL) most older people don't have a clue what a sensor is anyway, their cars didn't use many...Wow, just pulled an old pile of print outs from the 'Zone.... I stopped counting when I started getting close to 2 hundred slips, spanning 10 years...(need to spring clean one of these years hehe) AutoZone is how I make money to say the least, I fully understand what they can and can't do... So when someone that doesn't want to take the extra 5 min to go to the computer and type in *P0731* and click print and talks to me like I need help finding my gas cap I get a little put off... At one time the old lady had slid into a dumpster during a snowstorm and the heater controls stopped working for a week or two and then we slowly started to regain useage, AC/Heater works like brand new now without having gotten much attention...(random banging around blower motor and controls but nothing more... no fuses etc..) Uh, 2 years ago I think... And at one time I remember having to bop the top of the dash where my "dummy" lights are to make it stop dinging or something too haven't had these problems in sooo long that I had forgotten the had ever existed, but "The More You Know"...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
So.. Remember that "Problem I haven't had in so long"? Spoke to soon LoL.. I've just returned from a week's vacation, during which the van wasn't started or moved (-2 or so entire time with much snow) I topped off the oil and it fired right up without any symptoms at all, while I was getting luggage and the family in I heard the "Ding"Ding"Ding" and thought nothing of it, however once all doors were closed it kept going I had to "Bonk" the dash several times.. Once the dinging stopped my check engine light came on (not a shocker) but my airbag light stayed on a little longer than normal,it had been running for 5-8 minutes at this point. After a few minutes of driving the check engine light goes back off (also not a shocker) but other than being a little stiff from the sit and the cold (1:00a.m. 14 degrees'ish) It drove great ! I remember reading about the circuit board in the dash causing a lot of problems when its going out.. Any information in that area would be appreciated... *After thought about the 2007 3.8L* If I changed to the 5 speed standard transmission set up would the engine mate then? That would be the next step if I wanted to be able to fully utilize (manipulate?) my new HP anyway :) *Evil*Grin* The frame and the mounts and junk should be the same right ? I don't care about keeping like years and "models" the same this was a junkyard rescue that won't have any other owners..I was on track until these intermittent problems came up,the upgrades were always a part of the plan I'm just trying to see which fix will fix this stuff first ;)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
36,951 Posts
There is no 5 speed manual confirmed to fit the transverse 3.8. There's a slight chance the 5 speed used behind the 2.7 in the occasional Stratus or Sebring might fit but I don't think anyone has tried. Besides the 3.8 engine computer is going to expect the transmission computer to be there and won't play well without it.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top