**So.. Remember that "Problem I haven't had in so long"? Spoke to soon LoL.. I've just returned from a week's vacation, during which the van wasn't started or moved (-2 or so entire time with much snow) I topped off the oil and it fired right up without any symptoms at all, while I was getting luggage and the family in I heard the "Ding"Ding"Ding" and thought nothing of it, however once all doors were closed it kept going I had to "Bonk" the dash several times.. Once the dinging stopped my check engine light came on (not a shocker) but my airbag light stayed on a little longer than normal,it had been running for 5-8 minutes at this point. After a few minutes of driving the check engine light goes back off (also not a shocker) but other than being a little stiff from the sit and the cold (1:00a.m. 14 degrees'ish) It drove great ! I remember reading about the circuit board in the dash causing a lot of problems when its going out.. Any information in that area would be appreciated... **
Plymouth Voyager Stalling
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1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
Joined
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17,587 Posts
Even if the 'ck eng' light goes out, the fault code should be stored for awhile. It just means that the fault code is no longer active. Try the 'key dance':
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes/index.html
While it is possible for a 1995 cluster circuit board to have fractured solder joints and bad connections, I believe that it was the later generations that had 'no start' issues from it.
Look for fracture 'rings' around the through-hole pins in the board here:
0.jpg
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes/index.html
While it is possible for a 1995 cluster circuit board to have fractured solder joints and bad connections, I believe that it was the later generations that had 'no start' issues from it.
Look for fracture 'rings' around the through-hole pins in the board here:
0.jpg
*UPDATE* After my last post I decided to go back to my first instincts (FIRE / FUEL / AIR) My entire ignition and fuel systems ( except fuel rail & injectors & fuses) have been replaced... I have cleaned my throttle body many (many many many) times over the last few months..(it was cleaned during TPS replacements ( 3 try's thanks to O'Reillys bad parts..) and IAC replacement & also cleaned twice before and once after) 7 times for the throttle body while off in hand and I've cleaned the air intake through the brake booster and through the intake ducts & gas tank...So for maths sake 12 times in 4 months my "Air" has been cleaned (close to $150 worth of SeaFoam liquid and aerosol) Seems excessive right ? Nope... "Mud" was still coming out after all this time, but I wasn't making much smoke and when I revved it never seem to bog down so I figured I had at least enough airflow for what I was using... So on the last -- "Ok, one more cleaning and I'm going to ignore this and move on..." It just so happened to be the right temperature outside for the Heat vs Cold+ SeaFoam to make steam rise up from behind my intake plenum..*?* The only thing I can think of is my Plenum to Upper Intake Manifold gasket is bad or my egr valve is having problems, so I pull my egr and was amazed at how dirty it was.. To save gory details I'll cut to the chase.. I pulled it on Christmas Day (my gift to me *wink*) and soaked it in PB Blaster for a day and a half while I waited for the parts store to open to get gaskets... Cleaned the exhaust tube and egr valve and the passage between intake and egr.... FROM SUN UP TO SUN DOWN !! Literally... And sad to say but the best I could manage was as bad as I had expected to see it in the first place, fear not I did some Van'Damage thats for sure, it just wasn't shiny new looking like I would have liked to have left it.. The van has died less all day (3 times) than it normally would have before I could make it the first two blocks !! *Fist Pump* (out of the box EGR will be in this van's future) But in so I've noticed that if the van is idling ruff and dying often I don't have "Limp Mode" issues but while the engine is running fine I bounce in and out of "Limp Mode"... *QUESTION* Would a leaking upper intake manifold to air intake plenum gasket cause enough vacuum loss to trigger this issue..? Any Where Else The Steam Could Have Been Coming From? (smelt like the cleaner and happens when used through brake booster or intake and starts almost right away) I'm sure if I can find the leak then I'll be one step closer to figuring this thing out.. Thanks For The Advice :thumbsup:
*Sigh* To whom it may concern, I have the sneaking suspicion I have located the problem.. However, I want to tackle two systems at once... I don't know one area very well and can't find much information on the other.. I joined Allpar for the soul purpose of talking to knowledgeable persons about this specific problem.. Please help LoL :frustrated:
1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
Joined
·
17,587 Posts
Tell us what you have found. We can't try to help you don't share it with us.
I have reviewed this thread and still think that you need to continue diagnosis to find the problem. The stalling and transaxle code should be treated as 2 separate problems until we know more.
This may entail more than you can do with a 'driveway-type' diagnosis and you still might want to consider a data recording of the stall/limp-in event to help see what the PCM/TCM are seeing when the 'stall/limp-in' problem occurs. Of course it will have to act up for this. Many shops will hold a repair order open and let you take the recorder out until you can get an 'event' recording for them and then return to the shop for recording analysis.
Test equipment can be attached to the engine diagnostic connector and other underhood electrical parts for monitoring things. The connecting cables can be long enough to reach the windshield where it can be held under a wiper blade (in good weather) for viewing or brought inside the vehicle where you can view them. Usually it is good to have a helper along as the driver needs to keep their eyes on the road.
Stop replacing parts and cleaning things as this hasn't fixed anything yet and probably isn't the problem. An engine compartment wiring harness rub-though or connection-break can still happen and can be intermittent and new parts won't fix it. Have you been able to rule out a cluster solder break?
I don't know what 'steamed' when you were sea-foaming that time. An intake manifold vacuum leak will give you a fast idle, so I'm pretty sure that wasn't it. Sea Foam can damage an engine if used excessively.
A plugged EGR won't cause stalling, but a stuck-open EGR might. You can take the 'vacuum part' of the EGR out of the picture by disconnecting and plugging the transducer vacuum inlet vacuum hose and road testing the vehicle. A mechanically stuck open EGR is possible, I have seen the pintle burnt off or missing. You shouldn't be able to blow through it with it off the vehicle. If you can, replace it. If not, then it probably isn't the issue.
If it stalls out at speed, them the EGR and IAC probably aren't the problem. You have to determine if you are losing spark or fuel. Remember that an electrical loss can cause 'no fuel' if it causes the injectors to stay closed.
A factory service manual will list 'possible causes' of stalling and P0731 for you to continue diagnosis. Again without a scan tool you will be limited on the tasks that you might need to perform. You might be able to get by without one and do manual tests. It will probably take longer to do, so don't get frustrated. Take frequent breaks, have refreshment and listen to music, etc.
Chiltons or Haynes can be pretty much useless and even wrong about certain things. Don't use them for this level of service. Factory service manuals are the way to go.
Find someone more helpful than the guy at Autozone. While these guys can't diagnose a vehicle for you, most will give a printout of what the scan tool has seen. A PCM, TCM or scan tool can't see everything and there is a section in the service manual for issues that don't set fault codes called 'no code' tests.
I have reviewed this thread and still think that you need to continue diagnosis to find the problem. The stalling and transaxle code should be treated as 2 separate problems until we know more.
This may entail more than you can do with a 'driveway-type' diagnosis and you still might want to consider a data recording of the stall/limp-in event to help see what the PCM/TCM are seeing when the 'stall/limp-in' problem occurs. Of course it will have to act up for this. Many shops will hold a repair order open and let you take the recorder out until you can get an 'event' recording for them and then return to the shop for recording analysis.
Test equipment can be attached to the engine diagnostic connector and other underhood electrical parts for monitoring things. The connecting cables can be long enough to reach the windshield where it can be held under a wiper blade (in good weather) for viewing or brought inside the vehicle where you can view them. Usually it is good to have a helper along as the driver needs to keep their eyes on the road.
Stop replacing parts and cleaning things as this hasn't fixed anything yet and probably isn't the problem. An engine compartment wiring harness rub-though or connection-break can still happen and can be intermittent and new parts won't fix it. Have you been able to rule out a cluster solder break?
I don't know what 'steamed' when you were sea-foaming that time. An intake manifold vacuum leak will give you a fast idle, so I'm pretty sure that wasn't it. Sea Foam can damage an engine if used excessively.
A plugged EGR won't cause stalling, but a stuck-open EGR might. You can take the 'vacuum part' of the EGR out of the picture by disconnecting and plugging the transducer vacuum inlet vacuum hose and road testing the vehicle. A mechanically stuck open EGR is possible, I have seen the pintle burnt off or missing. You shouldn't be able to blow through it with it off the vehicle. If you can, replace it. If not, then it probably isn't the issue.
If it stalls out at speed, them the EGR and IAC probably aren't the problem. You have to determine if you are losing spark or fuel. Remember that an electrical loss can cause 'no fuel' if it causes the injectors to stay closed.
A factory service manual will list 'possible causes' of stalling and P0731 for you to continue diagnosis. Again without a scan tool you will be limited on the tasks that you might need to perform. You might be able to get by without one and do manual tests. It will probably take longer to do, so don't get frustrated. Take frequent breaks, have refreshment and listen to music, etc.
Chiltons or Haynes can be pretty much useless and even wrong about certain things. Don't use them for this level of service. Factory service manuals are the way to go.
Find someone more helpful than the guy at Autozone. While these guys can't diagnose a vehicle for you, most will give a printout of what the scan tool has seen. A PCM, TCM or scan tool can't see everything and there is a section in the service manual for issues that don't set fault codes called 'no code' tests.
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