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Question about electrical schematic on Valiant.org

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in the article there are three schematics shown.
The first schematic shows the original wiring with a one field alternator. It shows the field wire from the alternator going to the mechanical voltage regulator
The second schematic shows the system with an up-graded two field alternator.one field wire (green) going to the new electronic voltage regulator ...BUT it shows the other field wire grounded to the mounting tab on the voltage regulator... this is not correct is it? Shouldn't the second field wire from the new alternator go to the mounting plug on the new electronic voltage regulator?
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I believe this is the article in reference at valiant.org. Here is the link.

Electrical diagrams for Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth cars (at https://www.valiant.org/electrical-diagrams.html )

I looked at various wiring diagrams that I could find on the internet for Chrysler vehicles 1969 and earlier and 1970 and later. Vehicles with alternators built in 1969 and earlier used a one wire field alternator. The field coil wire was grounded internally to the alternator case. The vehicle used an electro-mechanical voltage regulator which pulsed 12 volt power to the field coil. The alternator field coil was power side pulsed / controlled.

However starting with 1970 models Chrysler built vehicles used a 2 field wire alternator with both field coil leads electrically insulated from the case. The voltage regulator became electronically controlled and used a 2 pin connector. The I terminal of the regulator provide 12 volt power to the electronic control mechanism and also provided 12 volt power through a separate wire to one side of the field coil. The other insulated field terminal of the alternator was connected through a green wire to the F terminal of the regulator. Thus the alternator field coil was ground side pulsed / controlled. No where could I find a reference that indicated anything contrary to an electronically controlled voltage regulator that is ground side pulsed / controlled.

So I agree with you that the author has drawn the blue wire incorrectly from one alternator field connection to the ground of the regulator case. It should be attached to the I terminal wire at the regulator. If you complete the wiring as shown by the author, both sides of the alternator field coil are grounded: 1 side to the regulator case and 1 side electronically through the regulator circuitry. So there is no current flow through the alternator field so no charging current on the alternator battery wire. Other than frustration no damage done. This article makes you wonder if the author wrote this procedure but never actually tested it to see if it worked. See attached image.

View attachment 18687
Thank You for your answer, so at least I know I do have it wired correctly. The article I was referring to was the only one that I seen showing that wire going to the case, but I have been chasing down a short for days and I am beginning to doubt everything. I just posted another addition to my original note, I believe now that I may have a short someplace in my starter circuit ... You seem knowledgeable perhaps you could read my post and give me your opinion. THANK YOU very much !!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
1968 Dart GTS, 360 Magnum engine, TCI 727 transmission, up-graded electrical system to include 105 amp two field alternator, electronic voltage regulator, amp gage has been by-passed. Hunting down a short, for testing purposes all wires removed from starter relay, all connections to voltage regulator removed, all wires except ground removed from alternator, both battery cables removed, main cable to started left intact. When using a tester set to make a sound when the two probes are touched together, I put one probe on the end of the positive cable and touch the other probe to the header, or any body ground, I get a "beeb" or grounded connection. If I am correct, I should not be experiencing a grounded connection as tested. That is why I believe there is a short somewhere in the starter connection, however the starter works fine. When all the wires were hooked to there proper places with the engine off, the outside case of the alterternator would get slightly warm, but the pulley would have an even higher temperature, keep in mind that the engine had not been run all day and the positive cable had been removed but put back on 30 minutes before I experienced the warm alternator. When I set the probe to test 20 volts DC and put the two probes on the battery posts in there proper places, I could watch the voltage slowly drop. With the engine running, the alternator is putting 15.3 volts to the battery. At first start up everything seems OK, but within 10 seconds with the drivers door open I notice the interior lights flickering and the fan belt starts squealing, and yes the fan belt is sufesonally tight. Since there is no reason for the alternator to get warm just sitting there, and the battery voltage slowly dropping I assumed there was a short and started hunting it down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank You for your reply, all new wires ran from alternator to voltage regulator and alternator ground. Bulkhead connections have been checked during previous testing. I have not pulled fuses yet but my problem appears to to be in the started cable circuit, although the started works correctly, I can not figure out is with all cables and connections disconnected, why wold I be getting a ground between the positive cable end and body ground? I may be wrong but I do not believe there is a fuse (other than a fusible link) in the starter circuit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you look at a 2 field wire Chrysler alternator from the 1970s era (I will assume that is the unit that is being used) schematics show NO separate ground wire to the unit. It is grounded through the case to the engine. So how / where is this alternator grounded? Is the larger diameter battery wire still attached to the alternator during your testing? See attached image.

View attachment 18693
The lead from the alternator no longer goes first thru the bulkhead the back to the starter relay. As stated earlier I have up graded the wiring per MAD electrical directions. I have run a ground wire from the alternator and it it grounded with star washers at the voltage regulator mounting. A 6 gage wire now runs from the alternator thru a new fuse block then to a distribution block. A 6 gage wire then runs from the distribution block to the starter relay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I went back and looked and you are correct there is no shown link, however I KNOW I typed it in. Anyways I will post it again here. MadElectrical.com - Mad Enterprises (at http://www.madelectrical.com/ ). click on the "Electrical Tech" section.
Thanks you for the tips. I planned on doing some of the previous suggestions but when I got home from the dentist, and then running a few errands for my wife at first I did not feel like doing anything. It was 95 here today and my garage was 98. I have decided to wait until later when it cools down a bit. To answer your question above I ran a ground wire from the back of the alternator case over to one of the mounting tabs on the case of the voltage regulator. I had to run a wire to ground the alternator so I just grounded both the alternator and the regulator to the body at the same place (although the voltage regulator has two other tabs that also act as a ground for the voltage regulator). I also used new star washers on each of the voltage regulator tabs to ensure a good ground. I checked the ground for both the alternator and the voltage regulator and both are good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I just got in the house
I was in the garage most of the day working on the car then we went to a friends. The short was not at the starter, I keep getting continuity between any ground and several different places. Pulled my bulkhead connectors with everything pretty much disconnected I am getting continuity between any ground and locations m and n at the bottom of the middle connector. After all my upgraded new wires were disconnected, I pulled ignition switch, wiper switch, neutral safety switch, four way flasher, directional signal flasher, checked all fuses. NOW, I have no continuity between ground and my main wires coming from the old connection at the ammeter, but there is barley anything hooked up anymore ... LOL. I volunteered to do some charity work tomorrow starting at 6:30, so I have to get up around 5:00am. If I feel up to it I will continue with this car tomorrow. It was hot in that garage all day today 93 degrees, and I will be out in the sun all day tomorrow gonna be tired. I will post a pick of my voltage regulator ground tomorrow. There are no problems in that area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Adding one back at a time right now is the plan. BUT ... what is doing right now is what started this whole process. First, I bougjt this car for my wife to drie to cruise-ins with me over a year ago. She has never driven it, so it has sat mostly for over a year with only occasional driving by me. The guy I bought it from has a rats nest of wiring up under the dash. It has a 360 Magnum engine that had been modified. It does not create enougj vacuum for the power brakes so it had a low dollar noisy vacuum pump mounted under the nattery box, well it ran most of the time and finally failed. I installed a new Masterpower vacuum pump per instructions, on first start up, my lights started flickering so I just assumed the pump was drawing to much amperage. Without checking to be sure, I bought a new 105 two field alternator and switched to an electronic voltage regulator. After all work was completed it is doing the same thing as it was doing before this operation started. I have already started tearing out his rats nest of wires to his mounted stereo, under dash gages. You would have to see the wiring mess to understand. Installing both of these simple items should have been simple, for example one wire for power to the radio has three splices in it, all a different color and wound up and over and back again ... well that is just one wire so you get the idea. It is a beautiful car, but when I got the car the stereo did not work, that was the first thing I went to fix. I found out why it did not work ... it was a simple fix ... He had the stereo ground wire screwed to a piece of black plastic light cover that he also added. Switch the wire to a proper ground and voila stereo works. My friends and I got a good chuckle out of that. I have no room to talk, he like I, was was good at mechanical stuff but not strong on electrical issues, well I consider myself to be a little better at common sense electrical issues like proper grounding. I am taking a break at my volunteering work sitting in my air-condition Tahoe, but later today I will send you some pics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
OK ... I believe I have found the problem or at least the circuit where the problem exists. It is in the circuit for the interior lights that trigger through the switches that turns the interior lights on and off when you open and close the door. Now to find what is causing the short. I have a continuity test set up on the wires that are my disconnected wires from the ammeter and rerun with new 10 gauge wires to a distribution point on the outside of the bulkhead. I have one test lead on ground and one test lead on what if the battery was connected would be the HOT wires that provide power to the inside dash and other components (stereo, tach, gauge pod). As hooked up and with the door open, the continuity test is sounding a connection between the hot leads and ground. With the door open if I push the switch in simulating a closed door the continuity is broken. I am sure you can imagine what I am saying but I will try and post a video as well. NOW to find what is causing the shorted circuit, test it again, clean up the wiring, put my dash back together, put the seats back in. Since I bought the car I have had a slight problem with the battey but I just assumed it was an old battery and it needed replacement. But since my wife did not want to bother with the car until we got the air-conditioning fixed in the car, (the previous owner removed most of the components). Nope it won't let me upload the video says it is to large.
 
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