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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am doing a valve train refresh on the 4.7 engine in my 2003 Ram 1500 with 260,000 miles on it. What remanufactured injectors would be best? I have HO camshafts and intake that I will be adding at the same time. Your advice is appreciated. ;)

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More or different fuel injector output won't help you with extra power IMO. The mixture is controlled by the O2 sensors. The spray pattern of stock injectors is optimum as determined by engineering.
The pulsewidth (injector 'on' time) will scale back to compensate for any added volume or fuel pressure, so any gains will be moot.
I'd stick with OEM.
 

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the 2 biggest "butt dyno" results on my 4.7 dakota were a Fastman ported throttle body and a tuner.
 

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The thing to watch out for with tuners and "butt dynos” is whether they're just changing the throttle response curve so a little becomes a lot... like the ol’ Dart 2.0.
 

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it definitely was quicker with the tuner and i towed an rv to Arizona from Canada and put the throttle body on in AZ and got better mileage going home
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I should have started my goals here. I'm not specifically looking for a performance gain from the injectors. The PCM should be able to adjust cycle time for stock injectors to work with the factory HO camshafts and intake manifold. I may or may not have the PCM tuned depending on how it feels have the work. The issue is that the spray pattern on some of my injectors is not that good no matter what injector cleaner I use. They need to be remanufactured or replaced with some that are. I also know that there have been some improvements to injector efficiency since 2003 and there are multiple brands and types that can work in a 4.7 engine. If I am going to get a set of remanufactured injectors, I would simply like to get some of the best ones. And I hope they will possibly last another 150,000 to 200,000 miles.

I've read that the Denso 4 Hole EV6 are better quality and more efficient than the ones that came in the 2003 Ram trucks. But I would like more advice before I drop $100 to $200 or so on some.

PS: The reason for the HO camshafts and intake is to possibly make it feel stronger for daily driving. Everything else I drive has a Hemi or a turbocharger, so the old 4.7 feels weak. My cams are fairly worn and I need to replace the chains and rockers (with the newer style). So it makes sense to help the old girl have a little more juice since it's a cheap upgrade and I'm doing surgery on her anyway. I bought her new in November 2002 and she needs to last 8 more years. I will replace her with something newer when I retire.

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he was able to make more of a difference with the cable driven tb than the wired one in my hemi
 

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I know that they use different spray patterns for different applications. The old TBI was happiest with a 'conical' pattern. I remember using an advance timing light as a strobe to see the cone in the throttle body bore.
When vehicles went to port-injection, a stream of fuel was directed at the backside of the intake valve for instant atomization as the valve opened and drew in the charge.
A lot of science and test trials went into selecting the optimum placement and geometry of the components in the air stream.
Direct injection into the cylinder (like a diesel) is the next big thing, but has had teething problems. The biggest, I think is fuel refinement. Sulphur content leads to soot and carbon build-up issues. Ask Cadillac.

Have you looked inside the runners with a laparoscope to check for carbon build-up? Fuel quality is better than it was. I use a bottle of Techron (basically kerosene) once a year.
Most of the fuel injector services done at shops with a can of 'miracle' solvent and sold as 'maintenance' is unnecessary.

I have never experimented with aftermarket or reman injectors. I have always used OEM. Injectors are very reliable and most that get damaged are from a fuel contamination issue.

Lots of good reading out there on the subject, but beware of exaggerated marketing claims and misinformation.






 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
he was able to make more of a difference with the cable driven tb than the wired one in my hemi
Throttle response can make a huge difference in a Hemi. Until recently, my wife's daily driver was a 2019 Charger Scat Pack with 392 Hemi. My daily driver is an old 2006 Charger R/T Daytona with 5.7 Hemi. I've made lots of modifications to the Daytona. But the only ones that increase performance are headers, modified exhaust and a canned 93 Octane DS tune. The DS tune increases throttle response a great deal. When my wife would drive my car, she often claimed it was more powerful than hers. The only reason is that the Dayton jumps at the first press of the accelerator. It will sometimes try to spin out and lurch forward if not driven with a toe from a dead stop. With the Scat Pack, she had to push the accelerator about a quarter of the way to wake up the 392.

We recently traded the Scat Pack for a 2021 Ram 1500 Laramie. She loves the truck, but the 400 hp 5.7 in it also requires a lot of accelerators to wake up. I found that a lot of new Ram owner install a Pedal Commander to have quicker throttle response. It's plug and play so it can be removed before service at a dealership and won't risk loss of warranty like a PCM tune would. With a 2021 Laramie, we NEED that warranty. Some of the parts are super expensive. o_O
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Throttle response can make a huge difference in a Hemi. Until recently, my wife's daily driver was a 2019 Charger Scat Pack with 392 Hemi. My daily driver is an old 2006 Charger R/T Daytona with 5.7 Hemi. I've made lots of modifications to the Daytona. But the only ones that increase performance are headers, modified exhaust and a canned 93 Octane DS tune. The DS tune increases throttle response a great deal. When my wife would drive my car, she often claimed it was more powerful than hers. The only reason is that the Dayton jumps at the first press of the accelerator. It will sometimes try to spin out and lurch forward if not driven with a toe from a dead stop. With the Scat Pack, she had to push the accelerator about a quarter of the way to wake up the 392.

We recently traded the Scat Pack for a 2021 Ram 1500 Laramie. She loves the truck, a LOT, but the 400 hp 5.7 in it also requires a lot of accelerators to wake up. I found that a lot of new Ram owner install a Pedal Commander to have quicker throttle response. It's plug and play so it can be removed before service at a dealership and won't risk loss of warranty like a PCM tune would. With a 2021 Laramie, we NEED that warranty. Some of the parts are super expensive. o_O
I know that they use different spray patterns for different applications. The old TBI was happiest with a 'conical' pattern. I remember using an advance timing light as a strobe to see the cone in the throttle body bore.
When vehicles went to port-injection, a stream of fuel was directed at the backside of the intake valve for instant atomization as the valve opened and drew in the charge.
A lot of science and test trials went into selecting the optimum placement and geometry of the components in the air stream.
Direct injection into the cylinder (like a diesel) is the next big thing, but has had teething problems. The biggest, I think is fuel refinement. Sulphur content leads to soot and carbon build-up issues. Ask Cadillac.

Have you looked inside the runners with a laparoscope to check for carbon build-up? Fuel quality is better than it was. I use a bottle of Techron (basically kerosene) once a year.
Most of the fuel injector services done at shops with a can of 'miracle' solvent and sold as 'maintenance' is unnecessary.

I have never experimented with aftermarket or reman injectors. I have always used OEM. Injectors are very reliable and most that get damaged are from a fuel contamination issue.

Lots of good reading out there on the subject, but beware of exaggerated marketing claims and misinformation.
Thank you for all of that. As you said, injectors are fairly robust. With the best remanufactured injectors, they are simply cleaned with strong solvents on a rack where they can be operated at optimum pressure and service cycles for cleaning. Sometimes, the nozzle tips are modified or changed. After cleaning (and possible nozzle modification), the injectors are metered and those with the most similar volumes at a given cycle will be grouped together and sold as a set.

This can be an inexpensive way to get reliable injectors that perform as well or even better than new ones. Specific to the 4.7 Dodge engine, it uses a standard size injector that was OEM for many engines and brands. So some of those are thought to be more efficient and more long-lived than others. And some of the newer ones are considered better.

My problem is that I've never really had to mess with my 4.7 engine before. It's literally the most long-lived and problem-free engine I've ever owned. So I don't know enough about it to separate the "wheat from the chaff" on the internet. I posted this question in the hopes of those with experience optimizing these specific engines would chime in with injector recommendations. I can always go harvest some salvage injectors from a Ram with less mileage on it. But I was hoping to do better so I only needed to do it once and possibly make the old girl feel stronger. I should likely post this question on a Jeep forum since that's where 4.7 modification happens most. ;)
 
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I don’t know much about the 4.7 injectors, but I know the 4.0 Jeep crowd says better idle and throttle response can be had upgrading to 4 hole injectors. Not really a performance gain, but better drivability.
 
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Thank you for all of that. As you said, injectors are fairly robust. With the best remanufactured injectors, they are simply cleaned with strong solvents on a rack where they can be operated at optimum pressure and service cycles for cleaning. Sometimes, the nozzle tips are modified or changed. After cleaning (and possible nozzle modification), the injectors are metered and those with the most similar volumes at a given cycle will be grouped together and sold as a set.

This can be an inexpensive way to get reliable injectors that perform as well or even better than new ones. Specific to the 4.7 Dodge engine, it uses a standard size injector that was OEM for many engines and brands. So some of those are thought to be more efficient and more long-lived than others. And some of the newer ones are considered better.

My problem is that I've never really had to mess with my 4.7 engine before. It's literally the most long-lived and problem-free engine I've ever owned. So I don't know enough about it to separate the "wheat from the chaff" on the internet. I posted this question in the hopes of those with experience optimizing these specific engines would chime in with injector recommendations. I can always go harvest some salvage injectors from a Ram with less mileage on it. But I was hoping to do better so I only needed to do it once and possibly make the old girl feel stronger. I should likely post this question on a Jeep forum since that's where 4.7 modification happens most. ;)
I installed new injectors on my 4.7 in my Commander. I used Standard Motor Products injectors. They work fine. Our 4.7 went south at 200,000 miles. I believe the head gasket went. It was going to cost more for heads to be redone, and I would still have a bottom end with 200k on it. So I had another low mileage 4.7 installed with the injectors from the old motor as they were almost new.
 

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I installed the HO cams in my 2001 4.7L and dyno'd before and after years ago. Those cams add a good bit of TQ in the midrange right where you want it. They do not add much HP if any on the top end it is all in the midrange. That said, they are worth it IMO. I didn't notice anything with the intake or Fastman TB. The Superchips 3715 tuner on the other hand was worth every penny, with measurable gains on every canned tuned. 87, towing and max performance.
I did not change out the injectors...actually it still runs the stock ones and has 365,000 miles. My son has it at college.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I installed the HO cams in my 2001 4.7L and dyno'd before and after years ago. Those cams add a good bit of TQ in the midrange right where you want it. They do not add much HP if any on the top end it is all in the midrange. That said, they are worth it IMO. I didn't notice anything with the intake or Fastman TB. The Superchips 3715 tuner on the other hand was worth every penny, with measurable gains on every canned tuned. 87, towing and max performance.
I did not change out the injectors...actually it still runs the stock ones and has 365,000 miles. My son has it at college.
Thanks. It may be that I can swap the little micro-filters on the tops of my injectors and solve the issue. I will play them when I get the hole thing disassembled. Right now, I plan to drive it until I've collected all the parts. Whether I grab some more injectors before the job depends on what I come across and how much then are. It's a little more costly, but I like to have everything I might need before I start surgery. But we will see. If the HO stuff gives me some mid-range torque, I will be delighted. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I don’t know much about the 4.7 injectors, but I know the 4.0 Jeep crowd says better idle and throttle response can be had upgrading to 4 hole injectors. Not really a performance gain, but better drivability.
Thanks. I do want the 4 hole injectors. The consensus online seems to be that the Bosch injectors are best and more durable. But the Bosch 4 hole EV6 injectors for the 4.7 are a newer style and need more fuel pressure. I would need a custom tune to use them in my engine. There are some Siemens 4 hole injectors that have very close specs to the ones that are OEM in the 2003 4.7 engine used in the Ram. Those should be plug and play.
 
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