[David S]

And that's why they should base the next Cherokee on a Jeep platform. That way the FWD/AWD platforms can be Dodge or Chrysler. They honestly could've fixed it already. The two row could've been the Cherokee and the three row Grand Cherokee. But no, they are all about max margins even if the public in this class of vehicle is all about 7 passenger capabilities.

There are multiple classes here. The present Cherokee is in the compact class.

All the Jeep SUVs and the competition that sells better than Grand Cherokee
2 door Wrangler 96.8" WB
Renegade 101.2" WB
Compass 103.8" WB
CR-V 104.7" WB
RAV4 105.9" WB
Rogue 106.5" WB
Cherokee 106.5" WB

Jeep Brazil/China Commander/ Grand Commander 110.0/110.2"
Highlander 112.2" This is the size missing at Jeep in the US.

WK Grand Cherokee 114.8" WB
Grand Cherokee 116.7" WB
4 door Wrangler 118.4" WB
Grand Cherokee L 121.7" WB

Dodge needs to be the division competing with CR-V, RAV4, Rogue and Highlander at 102.4", 106.3", 110.2" and 114.2". The AWD hybrids can be the "international" Jeeps. These go on Peugeot EMP2 replacing Renegade, Compass, Cherokee and Commander/Grand Commander.

The old WK is still offered for 2022. Maybe just make that the Cherokee for the traditional Jeep crowd. Or did you want a "Grand Cherokee S" to be the Cherokee, shortening the Grand Cherokee to a 112" wheelbase, same as the Highlander? That doesn't introduce a new platform which they can't afford to do.

 

[Adventurer55]

They could use the old WK, but I fear that the new two row will take a 3rd row seat compared to the L. They could've decontented the new two row some and lower the price, call it the new Cherokee. I just saw a new WL two row that is 71k. That's insane. The highest L that the dealer currently has is 62k. Who in their right mind would give up that kinda volume for 9k.

 

[David S]

There are multiple classes here. The present Cherokee is in the compact class.

All the Jeep SUVs and the competition that sells better than Grand Cherokee
2 door Wrangler 96.8" WB
Renegade 101.2" WB
Compass 103.8" WB
CR-V 104.7" WB
RAV4 105.9" WB
Rogue 106.5" WB
Cherokee 106.5" WB

Jeep Brazil/China Commander/ Grand Commander 110.0/110.2"
Highlander 112.2" This is the size missing at Jeep in the US.

WK Grand Cherokee 114.8" WB
Grand Cherokee 116.7" WB
4 door Wrangler 118.4" WB
Grand Cherokee L 121.7" WB

Dodge needs to be the division competing with CR-V, RAV4, Rogue and Highlander at 102.4", 106.3", 110.2" and 114.2". The AWD hybrids can be the "international" Jeeps. These go on Peugeot EMP2 replacing Renegade, Compass, Cherokee and Commander/Grand Commander.

The old WK is still offered for 2022. Maybe just make that the Cherokee for the traditional Jeep crowd. Or did you want a "Grand Cherokee S" to be the Cherokee, shortening the Grand Cherokee to a 112" wheelbase, same as the Highlander? That doesn't introduce a new platform which they can't afford to do.

They could use the old WK, but I fear that the new two row will take a 3rd row seat compared to the L. They could've decontented the new two row some and lower the price, call it the new Cherokee. I just saw a new WL two row that is 71k. That's insane. The highest L that the dealer currently has is 62k. Who in their right mind would give up that kinda volume for 9k.

Rear legroom on the new Grand Cherokee 38.2", WK 38.6", cutting the new Grand Cherokee shorter might not give enough rear legroom. Yeah the prices are crazy.

 

[valiant67]

The problem with the low margin product is the management. They are perfectly happy to sell low margin Fiats, Peugeots and Citroens in Europe and LATAM. $10K Fiats are fine but heaven forbid we get a Chrysler or Dodge with an MSRP under $25K in the US.

The problem with the Cherokee is it isn't Jeep enough for the diehards and it is too Jeep for the general public. They need a Dodge SUV to go after RAV4, CR-V, Rogue, Equinox and CX-5. Lightweight and FWD. Then there needs to be a Jeep version that goes after Forester and Outback, AWD only with different degrees of off road ready. Throw out the Fiat CUSW platform and put it on the Peugeot EMP2 platform. All AWD models are hybrids with electric AWD. The Jeep can sell at low volumes because it runs down the same line as the high volume Dodge.

They don't need more brand specific platforms. They don't need a BOF Wrangler and a Unibody Wrangler named Cherokee. That will have even less appeal outside the Jeep core buyers.

They failed with the midsize sedan because it was overweight and under wheelbase for the segment, and they refused to sufficiently update the engines with direct injection and offer a turbo 4. Messing up the transmission tuning the first year didn't help.

It’s not just selling price. I think the “roots” of the failed Dart/200 and the not moving as well as expected Cherokee and Pacifica make them more expensive to build. Just my guess, I have no inside information. If you want to succeed in the lower price segment, you can’t have a pricey “platform”.

 

[Adventurer55]

I would think the upcoming new platforms will address this.

 

[David S]

It’s not just selling price. I think the “roots” of the failed Dart/200 and the not moving as well as expected Cherokee and Pacifica make them more expensive to build. Just my guess, I have no inside information. If you want to succeed in the lower price segment, you can’t have a pricey “platform”.

It is true, Fiat modified the platform to make it wider for the US, that made them heavier and more expensive. They had nothing the right size for a midsize car.

Stellantis wouldn't have to do anything with the Peugeot EMP2, their products in Europe are the right size already. The exception is the full size pickup wide Pacifica, the Pacifica is Ducato/ProMaster full size commercial van wide. They ought to do a replacement platform for both vans. Calling them minivans at this point is ridiculous, they are just low roof full size vans.

 

[Adventurer55]

Yeah and the Promaster uses a rear axle that looks like it's right out of an 84 Caravan.

 

[AceHanlon]

Yeah and the Promaster uses a rear axle that looks like it's right out of an 84 Caravan.

I would agree since I drive one at work. The 80's called and they want it back.

 

[Adventurer55]

They might be able to design a platform that could work for both, but will need refinement for passenger minivan use.

 

[AmbassadorSST]

I do think this front end is nicer for sure. The rear, they actually softened it up a little bit which kind of surprises me. If you covered the Jeep badge and only showed the rear... it looks more Fiat with the rounded back.

Jeep doesn't need this vehicle, Chrysler does. The "Renegade" should be going after GM's Trax/Encore...this vehicle can't do that as a Jeep.
People that are looking to buy a Trax/Encore won't cross shop this because it looks "butch", and the Jeep crowd laughes at the restyled FIAT "Barbie Jeep".

 

[AceHanlon]

Jeep doesn't need this vehicle, Chrysler does. The "Renegade" should be going after GM's Trax/Encore...this vehicle can't do that as a Jeep.
People that are looking to buy a Trax/Encore won't cross shop this because it looks "butch", and the Jeep crowd laughes at the restyled FIAT "Barbie Jeep".

Chrysler needs it? Chrysler doesn't need any SUV in its lineup. The encore is ugly and isn't even rated good. If anything it hurts Buicks image. The Trax isn't that much better either. I don't even know what you mean when you say it looks "butch". Sure it might not be a "true" jeep.

 

[AmbassadorSST]

Chrysler needs it? Chrysler doesn't need any SUV in its lineup. The encore is ugly and isn't even rated good. If anything it hurts Buicks image. The Trax isn't that much better either. I don't even know what you mean when you say it looks "butch". Sure it might not be a "true" jeep.

Why doesn't Chrysler need an SUV/CUV? That's where all the sales are these days.

Neither is the Renegade rated all that great.
Sales Encore vs Renegade.

The Encore had a positive sales direction pre Covid, and the Renegade had a negative one.

 

[valiant67]

Chrysler needs CUV/SUV offerings. I also think Chrysler needs to keep a foothold in the sedan market as trends will change.

 

[David S]

Chrysler needs CUV/SUV offerings. I also think Chrysler needs to keep a foothold in the sedan market as trends will change.

Yes, the compact and midsize sedan market. I don't see the large sedan market coming back so long as people keep miscounting large FWD/AWD sedans as midsize.

 

[tomaz]

Why doesn't Chrysler need an SUV/CUV? That's where all the sales are these days.

Neither is the Renegade rated all that great.
Sales Encore vs Renegade.
View attachment 85745
View attachment 85744
The Encore had a positive sales direction pre Covid, and the Renegade had a negative one.

Im lost..... so your saying 554,918 units since 2015 for the Renegade is bad compared to the 574,990 since 2013 for the Encore is good even with the 2 year headstart?

 

[valiant67]

Im lost..... so your saying 554,918 units since 2015 for the Renegade is bad compared to the 574,990 since 2013 for the Encore is good even with the 2 year headstart?

I didn’t get your analysis as what the post was about. Rather than raw numbers, Encore sales were rising, while Renegade had peaked and was dropping (all pre-Covid).
Still I think Renegade did (and probably still is doing) better than initially planned in the US.

 

[suzq044]

Jeep is the SUV brand.

Arguably, renegade v Buick are not really cross shopped. Their styling is very different, the lifestyle they chase is different too. I don't think Jeep needs to try to corner every SUV market share. The renegade is a beginner Jeep, and it's not a bad one. It's just not what everyone wants or needs.

I bought a used trailhawk a week ago. So far, so good. All I've read on the various groups is a few little electrical things and how good this thing is in snow, and they're not even all Trailhawk.

We just wish our old one could upgrade to uconnect 5. Lol

Chrysler.. they haven't figured out other than they're trying to to keep it. We don't know what direction they're going and the airflow concept was probably a design language test. And a "we're not dead yet" lol

 

[AceHanlon]

Jeep is the SUV brand.

Arguably, renegade v Buick are not really cross shopped. Their styling is very different, the lifestyle they chase is different too. I don't think Jeep needs to try to corner every SUV market share. The renegade is a beginner Jeep, and it's not a bad one. It's just not what everyone wants or needs.

I bought a used trailhawk a week ago. So far, so good. All I've read on the various groups is a few little electrical things and how good this thing is in snow, and they're not even all Trailhawk.

We just wish our old one could upgrade to uconnect 5. Lol

Chrysler.. they haven't figured out other than they're trying to to keep it. We don't know what direction they're going and the airflow concept was lovely a design language test. And a "we're not dead yet" lol

Yes Jeep is the SUV brand so I don't see the need to muddle the waters by adding a SUV or crossover to the Chrysler brand. It's just gonna confuse the buyers more as to what they are.

 

[NWbyNW]

Jeep doesn't need this vehicle, Chrysler does. The "Renegade" should be going after GM's Trax/Encore...this vehicle can't do that as a Jeep.
People that are looking to buy a Trax/Encore won't cross shop this because it looks "butch", and the Jeep crowd laughes at the restyled FIAT "Barbie Jeep".

No need to be preaching to the choir here, lol. I know. Jeep should have a small CUV thing, but Chrysler also needs one.

The Buick Encore had been one of Buick's best selling vehicles for over five years and is still one of their best selling and highest rated vehicles. It really helped Buick sales in the US when it was released and was a capable little vehicle. Chrysler does indeed need a small, luxurious little run-about like the Encore.

The Trax has never been nearly the success as the Encore... even scoring poorly in some reviews. But if Chrysler can aim at the Encore or higher, they could have a successful vehicle in the segment. Kudos for Buick even offering AWD in the Encore and both the Encore/Trax have a spacious interior despite their diminutive size.

 

[page2171]

If Chrysler doesn't get a SUV or crossover because that's Jeep's territory, they might as well just kill Chrysler now and not waste any more money on it.