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Stratuscaster said:
It's also a 5-year-old car with a 2-year-old refresh, based on an even older design, against cars that have all been redesigned in that same 5-year period.

I will not deny there are better vehicles in the mid-size class today.

Now, put your consumer hat on. Tell me which other mid-size vehicle can provide the same level of VALUE the Avenger can?

Consider our forum member, Powered Toast Man. He just picked up a decently equipped Avenger with the 3.6L engine and Rallye package and got out the door for ~$21K. Is there another mid-size car that would fit that bill and that price? And if so, would PTM have even LIKED the car anyway? We can't say, because we aren't him.

Yes, there are those that feel fleet sales are a bad thing. They can be, if they are mismanaged. Properly managed, it can be a profitable business.

I read a good number of articles and reviews from critics and journalists. Ultimately, the decision is mine, and even if every review is glowing and praise-filled, I'm still going to go put my own butt in the seat and judge it for myself by my own needs and wants. Some guy writing web articles for Yahoo doesn't know what mine requirements are.
BTW, Powered Toast Man bought an '08 Magnum, and plymouth1 bought the new Avenger
 

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UN4GTBL said:
BTW, Powered Toast Man bought an '08 Magnum, and plymouth1 bought the new Avenger
Thank you - you are correct, and I am still very tired from helping my in-laws move. ;)

JRS200x said:
Not sure why we are talking about the Corolla either way, it is in a different class than the Avenger, it competes against the Dart.
MonacoMan said:
Agreed. Different class completely.
Missing my point. For the money one spends on a decently equipped 2013 Corolla, one could get a slightly larger and much more powerful (132HP vs. 283HP), yet still decently equipped, 2013 Avenger.

(Yes, the Corolla would get better gas mileage. And...that's about it.)
 

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It gets better gas mileage, has a bigger back seat and has a track record of better reliability. Sounds like reason enough to me. The Avenger is a poorly packaged car with a great engine, but that simply isn't what most people are looking for in their 4 door sedan. The vast majority of people buying cars in this segment want great gas mileage, reliability and low prices... the Avenger covers one of those imo.
 

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Bigger back seat? :huh:

Avenger vs Corolla:
Rear Headroom (in.) 38.30 vs 37.20
Rear Legroom (in.) 36.20 vs 36.30
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 56.00 vs 54.60
Rear Hip Room (in.) 52.80 vs 43.90

Plus, my own posterior that sat in both cars disagrees that the Corolla back seat is bigger than the Avenger's.

Track record or reputation? Two very different things.

Perhaps my glasses are just dirty.
 

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i love that the avenger and 200 have been left alone for a while now. bugs have been worked out, little things fixed, reliability founded, prices dropped lower and lower....

add the fact that the 200/avenger get a better safety score (haven't done the minor offset on the 'yota yet, but assumed based on the other cars in their fleet) and both have some passion in the design outweighs the gas savings...

basically.. no better value out there. totally get what some are saying that without the price, the car deserves to be at or close to the bottom, but last i checked, price is something that close to 100% of the people even considering a car like this care about.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
Bigger back seat? :huh:

Avenger vs Corolla:
Rear Headroom (in.) 38.30 vs 37.20
Rear Legroom (in.) 36.20 vs 36.30
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 56.00 vs 54.60
Rear Hip Room (in.) 52.80 vs 43.90

Plus, my own posterior that sat in both cars disagrees that the Corolla back seat is bigger than the Avenger's.

Track record or reputation? Two very different things.

Perhaps my glasses are just dirty
Track record or reputation? Both. If you are really going to try and drag the Corolla through the dirt as an unreliable car or one with a poor reputation or track record I would LOVE to hear that argument. It has a great track record and an amazing reputation. It's why it sells, as we have stated before there isn't much else that is all that intriguing about it.

As for the back seat, it is sad that the Avenger, which is in the next class up size-wise, loses in rear seat legroom to the Corolla, whether by .1 of an inch or not. Furthermore, I have sat in both as well, and they feel pretty much identical, which again, is NOT A PLUS for the Avenger, which is a much bigger, much less fuel efficient automobile.

I would love to say that the Avenger is an amazing car or class competitive, I sell it, but it isn't. Not by a long shot. You sit it next to the Accord, Fusion, Sonata etc, it just doesn't work. You can have all the brand loyalty in the world and love Chryco but call it like it is. If the Avenger had $1,000 rebate instead of basically $4,000 it wouldn't sell, it doesn't sell that well now, but it is a fleet sales queen. In general we are selling the car to people with a ton of negative equity or people with poor credit...

I am not saying it doesn't have any compelling features, it does (the Pentastar) but class competitive it is not.
 

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JRS200x said:
Track record or reputation? Both. If you are really going to try and drag the Corolla through the dirt as an unreliable car or one with a poor reputation or track record I would LOVE to hear that argument. It has a great track record and an amazing reputation. It's why it sells, as we have stated before there isn't much else that is all that intriguing about it.
Not trying to drag anything through the dirt - I know of more than a few Corolla's with issues around these parts. My point here is that they are not magically bullet-proof - no car is - and it's quite possible to break one. But will agree that it's very hard to fight against the reputation Toyota & the Corolla has. It's a fantastic appliance.

JRS200x said:
As for the back seat, it is sad that the Avenger, which is in the next class up size-wise, loses in rear seat legroom to the Corolla, whether by .1 of an inch or not. Furthermore, I have sat in both as well, and they feel pretty much identical, which again, is NOT A PLUS for the Avenger, which is a much bigger, much less fuel efficient automobile.
Perhaps your posterior feels things differently from mine. That .1" can also depend on how far back the front seat is. My rule of thumb is "can I sit behind myself?" In that regard, I found the Avenger's back seat better than the Corolla.

JRS200x said:
I would love to say that the Avenger is an amazing car or class competitive, I sell it, but it isn't. Not by a long shot. You sit it next to the Accord, Fusion, Sonata etc, it just doesn't work. You can have all the brand loyalty in the world and love Chryco but call it like it is. If the Avenger had $1,000 rebate instead of basically $4,000 it wouldn't sell, it doesn't sell that well now, but it is a fleet sales queen. In general we are selling the car to people with a ton of negative equity or people with poor credit...
And that is part of my point - it's a VERY valuable car in THAT regard.

No, it's not competitive with others in the mid-size class that have all been updated and refreshed much more than the Avenger has - depending on what you are measuring by. Not everyone uses the same criteria. Which is another part of my point.
 
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