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FCA is providing the tall FWD or AWD station wagons people are looking for: Cherokee, Renegade, Grand Cherokee.

Perhaps Dodge CUV / SUV entries could increase sales, but I doubt they could rival Toyota and Honda. I don't like it, but I don't believe that FCA is capable of competing with RAV4 / CR-V in terms of (real or perceived) build quality, reliability, durability, dealer experience, efficiency, and refinement. If they tried, I'm afraid it would look like a re-play of 200 vs Accord / Camry.
LOL Renegade, Compass and Cherokee are also overweight gas hogs, 25 mpg, #7, 11 and 19 in small SUVs this past quarter. Jeep with its Trail Rated is uniquely unsuited to provide the AWD wagons most people are looking for. As for the Grand Cherokee, it sells very well, #3 this past quarter. However FCA is still missing out on the on road biased half of the midsize SUV segment led by #1 Highlander.

Please stop it with the 200 red herring. If they tried to actually bench mark the competition they would have done far better. Wheelbase 4" too short, 300 lb too heavy, too wide and tall and no direct injection or turbochargers. Never mind the transmission they didn't tune right until they were ready to discontinue it. Even FCA could have done better, Stellantis can do far better.
 

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FCA is providing the tall FWD or AWD station wagons people are looking for: Cherokee, Renegade, Grand Cherokee.

Perhaps Dodge CUV / SUV entries could increase sales, but I doubt they could rival Toyota and Honda. I don't like it, but I don't believe that FCA is capable of competing with RAV4 / CR-V in terms of (real or perceived) build quality, reliability, durability, dealer experience, efficiency, and refinement. If they tried, I'm afraid it would look like a re-play of 200 vs Accord / Camry.
You maybe be right, but I think you are undervaluing FCA's ability to create desirable, functional/practical and reliable vehicles i.e. small crossovers. They already have a history of doing it successfully with Jeep and Dodge has sold buckets of Durangos, Nitros, Calibers and Journey's. Now that they have a closer relationship with Alfa and soon Peugeot, I truly believe FCA will bring us compact and midsized crossovers the US will love and swarm to dealerships for. The Rav4 and CR-V are special kinds of stupid because they have never been exciting or remarkable in anyway other than reliability, and even then they have had their problems i.e. rusting frames and rear quarter panels (thanks Honda). I recently owned a 2020 Rav4 and I will admit, it was an AWESOME vehicle. But was it a Jeep? Nope. Did it excite like a Dodge? Nope. Was it reliable, easy to use, and capable on-road through most terrains? Yeah, of course. Its a toyota. And Toyota has done a lot in the past 5 years to really invigorate the brand with some much needed youthful styling and performance. The Rav4 has the 2.5l Inline4 (which the Compass, Renegade and Cherokee both need) and the Hybrid and Prime models through in an electric motor(s) to really boost the performance to 11. BUT, the engine is noisy and the transmissions (aside from their new 8spd auto) is a crappy CVT that will drive you crazy on the highway. But the car LOOKS great inside and out and is super comfortable.
Now, can Dodge recreate that success in, say, a rebirth of the Nitro? Yeah, absolutely. Remember, those had a stick shift (from the wrangler/Liberty setup) and 20" wheels, a 4.0L engine good for something like 265hp and just looked mean. Sucked gas like a drunk pirate drinks whiskey but thats an easy fix. Lighter-weight materials, smaller displacement engine with a turbo (hello 2.0T) and a fun interior and BOOM! Success in the millions of sales. Thank you, youre welcome. Word on the street is Dodge already has a successor to the Journey in the works so, theres that rumor to chew on for a bit.
 

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The Dodge has a successor in the works rumor has been around now for the last three or four years. There is zero to indicate that rumor is true. There will be no new products coming from Dodge or Chrysler until the merger is done. It will be then at least three years until anything will come from that merger. Some seem to think that the 50 million investment will bring new models to Brampton. That would barely pay suppliers to change the wheel designs for the existing cars. This is the hand these two brands have been dealt. Only time will tell what happens to them.
 

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The Dodge has a successor in the works rumor has been around now for the last three or four years. There is zero to indicate that rumor is true. There will be no new products coming from Dodge or Chrysler until the merger is done. It will be then at least three years until anything will come from that merger. Some seem to think that the 50 million investment will bring new models to Brampton. That would barely pay suppliers to change the wheel designs for the existing cars. This is the hand these two brands have been dealt. Only time will tell what happens to them.
While the vehicles might not come until AFTER the merger, the fact remains that a Dodge Journey successor is on its way soon. Its a market share FCA needs to take part in. They didnt have much success with the 500x so they know they need to go bigger, and they are, for both Fiat and Dodge. Jeep already has the Renegade, Compass, and a smaller jeep coming to other markets (i.e. India) and Chrysler is getting two crossovers/SUVs most likely to compete better with Buick (Envision and Encore GX), Cadillac (XT4 and 5 and upcoming Lyriq), Lincoln (Nautilus and Corsair) and possibly even the german 3 (or at least VW). Thats what Brampton will be getting.
But Alfa will reveal two crossovers soon(Tonale a something bigger than Stelvio and MAYBE a replacement for the Giulietta)
 

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With all due respect, until there is an announcement from the company, anyone can float the new products are coming rumor. But there is zero evidence to support this. No Chrysler or Dodge vehicles are produced in the US with the exception of Durango. The rest are produced in Canada, who just signed their new contract, with no new products, except for a vague reference to something for Windsor that is supposed to show up after the current contract expires. So to say that something is coming is just another rumor. People on here for years have been burned too many times.
 

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With a due respect until there is an announcement from the company, anyone can float the new products are coming rumor. But there is zero evidence to support this. No Chrysler or Dodge vehicles are produced in the US with the exception of Durango. The rest are produced in Canada, who just signed their new contract, with no new products, except for a vague reference to something for Windsor that is supposed to show up after the current contract expires. So to say that something is coming is just another rumor. People on here for years have been burned too many times.
Well, yes, until there is an OFFICIAL announcement, its all rumor. BUT, remember, the Journey is (was) made in Mexico and plans were to build a successor in Italy next to the stelvio.
The Tonale I believe would be built alongside the renegade, compass, 500x or the rumored 500XL. Vehicle could still be built in mexico alongside the Compass.

Brampton is getting 50million to blow on new/updated charger/challenger/300 and thats already been made official. Brampton is getting over a billion to update the plant and get ready for 2 new vehicles. This has also been made public/official. The question is, what would those vehicles be? FCA could easily build the Grand Commander in the US at Belvidere or Brampton and rebadge it as a Chrysler. The pacifica platform can be adapted to something bigger, smaller, a crossover, suv etc.

Yes some of this is conjecture, but not all of it. And there is proof out there.
 

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Same story, same song and dance. You do realize this new Dodge or Chrysler product is coming “soon” rumor has been around for several years - and even in various”plans” only to get dropped.

What makes it happening now when it never did before? It’s past the point anyone believes promises on behalf of FCA.
 

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LOL Renegade, Compass and Cherokee are also overweight gas hogs, 25 mpg, #7, 11 and 19 in small SUVs this past quarter. Jeep with its Trail Rated is uniquely unsuited to provide the AWD wagons most people are looking for. As for the Grand Cherokee, it sells very well, #3 this past quarter. However FCA is still missing out on the on road biased half of the midsize SUV segment led by #1 Highlander.

Please stop it with the 200 red herring. If they tried to actually bench mark the competition they would have done far better. Wheelbase 4" too short, 300 lb too heavy, too wide and tall and no direct injection or turbochargers. Never mind the transmission they didn't tune right until they were ready to discontinue it. Even FCA could have done better, Stellantis can do far better.
Yes, good supporting points, thanks. The Jeep SUV are inefficient compared to the competition, and only a portion of that can be attributed to trail rating. (The 500X version isn't super efficient.) And good supporting points on the 200 as well -- they missed the mark versus the competition; should have done much better.

If Dodge/Chrysler CUV/SUV entries are developed, I sure hope they stack up against the competition better than the 200 did, but FCA doesn't have a good record of that in the US, and Stellantis has no record in the US.
 

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You maybe be right, but I think you are undervaluing FCA's ability to create desirable, functional/practical and reliable vehicles i.e. small crossovers. They already have a history of doing it successfully with Jeep and Dodge has sold buckets of Durangos, Nitros, Calibers and Journey's.
I truly hope I am underestimating them. I'm impressed enough with the Durango, but I've never been impressed with the Nitro, Caliber, or Journey. I found them inefficient, crude, and unrefined. The Journey with the Pentastar was decent, but fairly old by then.

Ram and Pacifica and Grand Cherokee (and maybe even Durango) go head to head or even beat the competition, not just in the opinion of Allpar members, but with the public and auto motive press as well. I want to see them meet/beat CR-V/RAV4 in the same way, but the challenge is tremendous.
 

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Same story, same song and dance. You do realize this new Dodge or Chrysler product is coming “soon” rumor has been around for several years - and even in various”plans” only to get dropped.

What makes it happening now when it never did before? It’s past the point anyone believes promises on behalf of FCA.
Indeed, we all want new Dodge / Chrysler product to be coming. Your post may sound like sour grapes to some, but I think it accurately summarizes how many (most?) of us feel.
 

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Same story, same song and dance. You do realize this new Dodge or Chrysler product is coming “soon” rumor has been around for several years - and even in various”plans” only to get dropped.

What makes it happening now when it never did before? It’s past the point anyone believes promises on behalf of FCA.
Here, the difference is where Sergio may have said "we're going to do this and this," etc. and given a timeframe, Stellantis doesn't even technically exist yet and nobody can even legally say what they're going to do until that time. Nobody has promised anything that can make it happen. These really are mostly just rumors and suppositions. That said, can folks stop tolling the Chrysler and Dodge death bells and let this play out?
 
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I truly hope I am underestimating them. I'm impressed enough with the Durango, but I've never been impressed with the Nitro, Caliber, or Journey. I found them inefficient, crude, and unrefined. The Journey with the Pentastar was decent, but fairly old by then.

Ram and Pacifica and Grand Cherokee (and maybe even Durango) go head to head or even beat the competition, not just in the opinion of Allpar members, but with the public and auto motive press as well. I want to see them meet/beat CR-V/RAV4 in the same way, but the challenge is tremendous.
Oh you are absolutely correct about the Journey, Nitro and Caliber. While fun and unique in their own right, they were crude (at the start) thanks to Daimler. Once Fiat came in, they at least made the Journey and Caliber livable and competitive...for a moment. The Nitro was dead by then due to horrible MPG. But imagine what those three would be like now. Not too hard to imagine because FIAT already has similar vehicles in other countries (as does Peugeot). There is a world of possibility and im excited!
 

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Same story, same song and dance. You do realize this new Dodge or Chrysler product is coming “soon” rumor has been around for several years - and even in various”plans” only to get dropped.

What makes it happening now when it never did before? It’s past the point anyone believes promises on behalf of FCA.
These products are just around the corner! Mind you, the corner actually appears to be a circle. Hey, but you gotta reach the end of the circle sometime, right?
 

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The Jeep sales stink compared to what investing in Dodge and Chrysler SUVs could have done. Dodge sales could have rivaled RAV4, CR-V and Highlander sales, Chrysler sales could have rivaled Lexus NX, RX and Acura MDX. Instead Fiat management stupidly gave us the slow selling gas hogs Renegade, Compass and Cherokee. A Ram Dakota could have rivaled Tacoma in sales. Fiat invested in the weakest brand and got the weakest return. It could have done so much better by investing in Chrysler, Dodge and Ram.
They were just looking for the fast money. Jeep & Ram are it. They wanted more to dump on Fiat and Alfa vehicles. As if they couldn't figure out that they weren't selling. They couldn't have cared less about product for Dodge or Chrysler. The main goal was Fi-Alfa.
 

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Oh you are absolutely correct about the Journey, Nitro and Caliber. While fun and unique in their own right, they were crude (at the start) thanks to Daimler. Once Fiat came in, they at least made the Journey and Caliber livable and competitive...for a moment. The Nitro was dead by then due to horrible MPG. But imagine what those three would be like now. Not too hard to imagine because FIAT already has similar vehicles in other countries (as does Peugeot). There is a world of possibility and im excited!
Having owned a string on Jeeps developed and built under DCX and under FCA, this is what I find FIAT brings to the table:
  1. Significantly improved assembly quality, fit and finish, much more emotion in the design, and better look-and-feel of the interior materials
  2. Significantly worsened quality control for unwanted squeaks, buzzes and rattles
  3. Much improved engine performance across the board, more sophisticated handling, improved greater fuel economy
  4. Overcomplicated electronic controls, and questionable engine construction that compromise engines’ durability
  5. Chrysler’s value proposition was pretty clear: you got more room and more power for less money, and received adequate levels of customer service and reliability. FCA’s value proposition seems to be more emotion, user-friendly connectivity, inconsistent quality, crummier customer service, all for more money.
In so many words, a more European flavor.
 

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You are forgetting Ram. A whole lot of high margin pickups are sold.
Indeed. I had my '06 Ram 1500 at the dealer for state inspection (needed rear pads, rotors and calipers, but that's another story) and while there I wandered the lot. Sticker price on a Ram 1500 in the showroom (think it was a Big Horn) was $68K. Yikes! That's more than double the MSRP of my '06 ($32K in 2006).

They had 8 '20 Challenger Scatpacks on the lot. Sticker prices were in the low 40's but each one had an additional market adjustment sticker adding $5,000 to the MSRP. Dealer did not have any Challenger SXT's or RT's. Only the Scatpacks.

Yes, I know there are incentives, but jeeezzzzz.........o_O
 
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People on here can say what they want, but the North American side of the business has had to adopt various things from Fiat that hasn't exactly been a plus. But there are things that have worked. It'll be interesting to see where they go after all the new Jeeps are launched. After the merger, unless something changes the NA side will be forced again to adapt to new ways of doing things. Inside the walls of Auburn Hills, and it's fiefdom, many will not want to go along. Things will again suffer, I'm afraid.
 
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