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SRT Boss Gilles Says Dodge Brand .....................

6K views 39 replies 13 participants last post by  MoparNorm 
#1 ·
..... Not Dead, But May Become 'More Focused'

Rumors of the Dodge brand's death are greatly exaggerated, according to SRT boss Ralph Gilles--but that doesn't mean the brand won't undergo some "focusing." That's what we can extract from Gilles' Instagram posting (via Autoblog) last week. Responding to questions about the rumors of the Dodge brand's demise, Gilles said, "Dodge is here to stay!...

From: MOTORAUTHORITY EMAIL SENT OUT JULY 13, 2012 @ 12:01 pm

Anymore have a better idea of this ? I heard that dropping the Dodge mini van & Durango maybe the "focusing" ?
 
#2 ·
We'll know more when we know more - until then, the discussion will rage on and plenty will take rumors at face value because they can't be bothered to invest any time in thinking about the realities of it.

My take - if Sergio still wants Alfa to be the world-player he thinks it can be, he needs the sales volume of companion Dodge models to make that happen. That said, Alfa doesn't need a minivan or an SUV.

As such, any changes aren't happening overnight.
 
#3 ·
I think eventually, the plan is to have Dodge with the Dart, Charger, Challenger (on the 200 platform) and move the Durango to Jeep, as the Grand Wagoneer (which is a great move. The Durango, as good as it is, has been a sales disappointment), I think the Journey and Caravan will be Chryslers. I think they'll add an A body (Hornet?) and maybe a version of the miata/alfa convertible down the road.
 
#4 ·
I think they aren't quite sure they know what they're going to do. Marchionne still has other unsolved variables such as Alfa, Mazda, the European market situation, the Italian government/ union situation and the price of gas going forward. Can a front wheel drive C and D class Alfas be viable with consumers? Would a rear wheel drive Alfa/Dodge D class make money? Will upgraded Darts and Durangos start selling better? Can the Chrysler 200 replacement cover the whole D class for Chrysler? Have they really made a choice about the minivan situation?

I think so called badge engineering can still work for Chrysler in the US. The Grand Caravan and Town and Country situation proves it. I think they should have Chrysler and Dodge large and mid size crossovers as well. Chrysler should be affordable luxury and Dodge should be base/fleet models with available affordable performance upgraded models, pretty much what they have now only more focused. Export models can be tweaked for the situation.
 
#5 ·
Stratuscaster said:
My take - if Sergio still wants Alfa to be the world-player he thinks it can be, he needs the sales volume of companion Dodge models to make that happen. That said, Alfa doesn't need a minivan or an SUV.

As such, any changes aren't happening overnight.
Your concept makes sense unless Alfa gets associated with Dodge (which is what the automitive press and VW will try to do).

Oh, that Alfa is just a tarted-up Dodge.
 
#6 ·
Erik Latranyi said:
Your concept makes sense unless Alfa gets associated with Dodge (which is what the automitive press and VW will try to do).

Oh, that Alfa is just a tarted-up Dodge.
I agree. That's why SM needs to get someone to proactively play this game and kill such nonsense ASAP (I was going to say "before it starts", but judging by a video I just watched of those dumbasses at motortrend, the rumor mill has already started to work that angle. No doubt that mill's activity is being financed by someone...).

Again, marketing is more than nice Super Bowl ads.
 
#8 ·
I think Dodge will be "focused" on affordable "Sporty" (sporty as in great handling with a Sporty flair) Sedans/Coupes similar to how Mazda is, just Majority RWD. Dodge will be Full of "Niches":
  • Dart FWD/AWD in Sedan and Hatch form.
  • A D-RWD Sedan shared with Alfa Romeo (Giulia)
  • Challenger Shared with Alfa Romeo (6C) Maserati (Gran Turismo),
  • and a low-slung "4-door Coupe" like Charger shared with Alfa Romeo (169)
  • Demon 2 Seater Sports car shared with Alfa's Spider

Thats a 5 Car model lineup for Dodge
 
#9 ·
Stratuscaster said:
We'll know more when we know more - until then, the discussion will rage on and plenty will take rumors at face value because they can't be bothered to invest any time in thinking about the realities of it.

My take - if Sergio still wants Alfa to be the world-player he thinks it can be, he needs the sales volume of companion Dodge models to make that happen. That said, Alfa doesn't need a minivan or an SUV.

As such, any changes aren't happening overnight.
Well, actually it can happen that way ...

We're very nearly at the end of their five-year plan. They've gathered pretty significant background data on a number of facets which detail the ChryFi buyer, ChryFi product performance, ChryFi undisclosed plans. They had Daimler-Chrysler books from the past at their disposal.

They can make very, very specialized well-informed changes with a fantastic array of background data crunched every which way on which to base those changes.

Yes ... They could make 'overnight' changes with a huge body of data to support their actions.
 
#10 ·
Stratuscaster said:
Do the same people refer to Audis as tarted up VWs?
No, because you see, the VW Group's excessive component sharing is something consumers are impressed by, but when other automakers do something similar it's suddenly a bad thing.

If you say that Audi is a tarted-up VW these days, you'll be met with incessant cries about "MLB! MLB! MLB!" - as if the past decades of VW-Audi platform sharing never happened...
 
#11 ·
Stratuscaster said:
Do the same people refer to Audis as tarted up VWs?
They should. But VW has a marketing department. Chrysler has monkeys throwing poop at a dart board.

When Piech talkedabout a vehicle, he talked about all the unique features that set it apart from its VW cousin.
When Marchionne talks about a vehicle, he brags about all the cost savings he made by sharing the platform.
 
#13 ·
Erik Latranyi said:
They should. But VW has a marketing department. Chrysler has monkeys throwing poop at a dart board.

When Piech talkedabout a vehicle, he talked about all the unique features that set it apart from its VW cousin.
When Marchionne talks about a vehicle, he brags about all the cost savings he made by sharing the platform.
That right there is pure gold.
Somebody should print one of those huge things that hang in front of the AH offices so that SM sees it every time he walks in front of the building!

EDIT: and even more telling is the fact that VW's chief marketing guy is Luca de Meo, who was a FIAT man.
He had a disagreement over the future of AR (back when SM wanted to kill it off) so he resigned and was immediately scooped up by VAG.
 
#14 ·
RVC said:
That right there is pure gold.
Somebody should print one of those huge things that hang in front of the AH offices so that SM sees it every time he walks in front of the building!
Well, to be fair, I seem to remember that a lot of the hype surrounding VW's new MQB architecture revolved around how it would provide VW with tremendous cost savings. Nevertheless, there's no doubt that VW's current success is primarily marketing-driven, as its cars may be good, but not that much better than the competition than what sales figures may suggest. VW even got away with a 10-year model cycle of its most important vehicle, the Golf, without anyone complaining - contrast that with how Fiat is treated when it takes its time to renew its offerings.

RVC said:
EDIT: and even more telling is the fact that VW's chief marketing guy is Luca de Meo, who was a FIAT man.
He had a disagreement over the future of AR (back when SM wanted to kill it off) so he resigned and was immediately scooped up by VAG.
I've always wondered what really made Luca DeMeo leave so abruptly, do you have any more details about this? I mean, for a while he was in fact touted as Marchionne's potential successor at Fiat, and all of a sudden he was gone - and to Volkswagen, no less!

Do you know exactly what the disagreement was about - whether Alfa Romeo would survive? Did Marchionne really intend to kill it off? Why would DeMeo want to work with Volkswagen anyway? And is he somehow involved in Volkswagen's plans to take over Alfa Romeo (I ask because the blog with the brilliant name "Das Alfa Romeo" - run by some Italians who have the audacity to call themselves "Alfisti" despite their obvious pro-VW agenda - somehow reminds me of the old "Quelli Che Bravo" Fiat Bravo promotion blog, which I believe was a Luca DeMeo initiative)?
 
#16 ·
Charger Red said:
Or correspondingly (depending on the market) "Oh, that Dodge is just a knuckle dragging-induced Alfa."
Well, saying the Dart has "Alfa DNA" certainly has not helped sales!
 
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#17 ·
Erik Latranyi said:
Well, saying the Dart has "Alfa DNA" certainly has not helped sales!
For a LOT less money, time and avoidance of production glitches, Giulietta could have been brought here, as is*, rebadged and sold 60,000 per year.
Pride goeth before the fall.


*in the same manner as 500
 
#18 ·
Charger Red said:
Erik Latranyi, on 13 Jul 2013 - 3:53 PM, said:
Your concept makes sense unless Alfa gets associated with Dodge (which is what the automitive press and VW will try to do).

Oh, that Alfa is just a tarted-up Dodge.
Or correspondingly (depending on the market) "Oh, that Dodge is just a knuckle dragging-induced Alfa."
I always like to think of the ME 412 at times like these

http://www.allpar.com/photos/concept-cars/chrysler/chrysler-ME-412.jpg
 
#19 ·
MoparNorm said:
For a LOT less money, time and avoidance of production glitches, Giulietta could have been brought here, as is*, rebadged and sold 60,000 per year.
Pride goeth before the fall.


*in the same manner as 500
They still would have had to make a CUSA wide platform for other cars like Cherokee and 200. It also would have created an image problem for coming Alfas.
 
#20 ·
billfrombuckhead said:
They still would have had to make a CUSA wide platform for other cars like Cherokee and 200. It also would have created an image problem for coming Alfas.
I fail to see how the best selling Alfa would create an image issue for Alfa?

They already have an American Platform for the 200.
A Jeep should NEVER share a FWD short armed independent suspension architecture with a pavement car.
What you note, is Marchionne's vision, however it may prove to be myopic.
 
#22 ·
It's the same size as the Golf, Focus, Mazda 3, etc.
The price in the US would be the same as what you pay for a Golf GTI, Audi A3, etc.
 
#23 ·
69DartGTS said:
Um dont the Giuileeta Start at like 35K in Europe?? Its also to Small of a car for The American C-Segment.
So why waste 1 billion trying to "fix" it when Chrysler already had platforms closer to the correct size?
 
#24 ·
Lampredi said:
Well, to be fair, I seem to remember that a lot of the hype surrounding VW's new MQB architecture revolved around how it would provide VW with tremendous cost savings. Nevertheless, there's no doubt that VW's current success is primarily marketing-driven, as its cars may be good, but not that much better than the competition than what sales figures may suggest. VW even got away with a 10-year model cycle of its most important vehicle, the Golf, without anyone complaining - contrast that with how Fiat is treated when it takes its time to renew its offerings.
You can add to that the Polo, which is exactly the same car as the old generation under the skin, but with an updated suit and interior. It's all marketing, it works.
Don't get me started on Audi's and what people are willing to pay for those cars, let alone the ease with which most ignorant journalists compare them to BMWs.

Lampredi said:
I've always wondered what really made Luca DeMeo leave so abruptly, do you have any more details about this? I mean, for a while he was in fact touted as Marchionne's potential successor at Fiat, and all of a sudden he was gone - and to Volkswagen, no less!

Do you know exactly what the disagreement was about - whether Alfa Romeo would survive? Did Marchionne really intend to kill it off? Why would DeMeo want to work with Volkswagen anyway? And is he somehow involved in Volkswagen's plans to take over Alfa Romeo (I ask because the blog with the brilliant name "Das Alfa Romeo" - run by some Italians who have the audacity to call themselves "Alfisti" despite their obvious pro-VW agenda - somehow reminds me of the old "Quelli Che Bravo" Fiat Bravo promotion blog, which I believe was a Luca DeMeo initiative)?
De Meo was promoted to head of AR after his stint at FIAT and Abarth (and Renault and Lexus before that). He drafted a plan to return AR to its former glory, mainly based on stopping the FIAT-ization of ARs and returning them to RWD and true performance, etc, etc.

SM instead had been tasked with shutting it down (the Centro stile, R&D etc in Arese were closed right before the Chrysler adventure began). He didn't buy De Meo's plan, so he (De Meo) did what executives in Europe do in this situations, which is resigning their position.
Together with De Meo a lot of AR engineers, designers, stylists left for the one company that said that they would scoop up AR and they needed them m to make it a legitimate effort (including the current VAG head of style Walter de Silva, and Audi's head of style Wolfgang Egger).
When the Chrysler deal came into the picture, the marketing people identified Jeep and Alfa as the only two brands that could be sold as premium on a global level. Alfa was saved and the whole plan to make them real ARs began to be set in motion. The sell off to VW didn't happen (not for lack of VW trying including the stupid efforts by de Silva & Co). So now all those former AR guys are left with, is trying to make Audis and other VW appliances exciting.

Maybe sooner or later people will realize that they are paying through the nose for chrono-degradable VWs with a nice-ish dress and rubbery interiors. I don't care; what I care about is that SM is being forced to make AR a true contender in the premium segment, and if the 4C is any indication he is going in the right direction.
If he doesn't do a Cherokee with the exterior of the Giulia and E segment and makes the interiors as good in perceived quality (I.e. nice plastics, satin chrome, and whatever-leather-as-long-as-its-leather just like the Germans do) then he will have a succeeded in closing this shameful 30yr stint through the mud that AR has been forced to endure, while at the same time rebalancing the positions of AR and Maserati (and hopefully down the road Chrysler/Lancia), against the admittedly nicely executed but achingly boring German products.
 
#25 ·
MoparNorm said:
So why waste 1 billion trying to "fix" it when Chrysler already had platforms closer to the correct size?
Why not just leave the platform the size it was... Since everyone is now complaining that the car is "too big".

It doesn't matter :)

Mike
 
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#26 ·
RVC said:
SM instead had been tasked with shutting it down (the Centro stile, R&D etc in Arese were closed right before the Chrysler adventure began).
Tasked with? Are you saying it was not Marchionne's own initiative to shut it down? If so, who ordered it, was it Elkann? (I wonder what would have happened with Lancia if Alfa were indeed closed...)

RVC said:
So now all those former AR guys are left with, is trying to make Audis and other VW appliances exciting.
Well, good luck with that ;)
 
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