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Discussion Starter #1
From the article:

The group said on Wednesday it was targeting an adjusted operating profit margin of 5.5per cent-7.5per cent this year, assuming no further significant COVID-19 related lockdowns.

That compares with a 5.3per cent aggregated margin last year: 4.3per cent at FCA and 7.1per cent at PSA excluding a controlling stake in parts maker Faurecia, which is set to be spun-off from Stellantis shortly.

Full article here:

Stellantis aims to lift Fiat Chrysler margins towards PSA levels - CNA (channelnewsasia.com)
 
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Fiat Chrysler reported fourth-quarter adjusted earnings before interest and taxes of 2.3 billion euros, a record 2.2 billion euros of those generated in North America.

Maserati made a positive contribution for the first time in nearly three years.

We know that North American brands are weak, but the EU brands are even weaker and contribute next to NOTHING to the company.

FCA is investing heavily in Maserati that has been a money-loser as well.

I hope that Stellantis takes a smarter approach than what was done in the past.
 

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Chrysler has needs the most investment and align them with Lancia, since they serve different regions. Crossovers are key so they should start with a new B- and C-segment models with dramatic low slung coupe-ish styling, hybrid and full electric powertrains. Even take a jab at Subaru making AWD standard across the range. With both those brands being blank slates they can be key to offering a different kind of elegance and performance from the others in the group.
 

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It is refreshing to see a real leader talk about the business. I am more and more confident that Tavares and the PSA team will show the EU side how to make money, gain market share and have decent quality from friendly dealerships.

I never thought I would be thankful for having the Portuguese and French as sober, competent executive leadership!!!!
 

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Chrysler has needs the most investment and align them with Lancia, since they serve different regions. Crossovers are key so they should start with a new B- and C-segment models with dramatic low slung coupe-ish styling, hybrid and full electric powertrains. Even take a jab at Subaru making AWD standard across the range. With both those brands being blank slates they can be key to offering a different kind of elegance and performance from the others in the group.
I don't think the brands are blank slates, they have historic ranges that should be respected when adding crossover SUVs. I do agree with the aerodynamic coupe like crossovers for both brands.

Depending upon what is meant by the meaningless "B" class crossover label, something like that would be too small for Chrysler. Specifically the cargo room would need to be at least 20 cu ft for a Chrysler SUV, the 14 cu ft cargo area of the 500X, 18 cu ft cargo area of the Renegade, and 13 cu ft cargo area of the C4 hatchback are all unacceptable.

Lancia on the other hand can go as small as 4.0 m x 1.7 m for a "B class" crossover, shorter makes coupe like too difficult, narrower hurts handling.
 

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Chrysler has needs the most investment and align them with Lancia, since they serve different regions. Crossovers are key so they should start with a new B- and C-segment models with dramatic low slung coupe-ish styling, hybrid and full electric powertrains. Even take a jab at Subaru making AWD standard across the range. With both those brands being blank slates they can be key to offering a different kind of elegance and performance from the others in the group.
NO.
 

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FCA is investing heavily in Maserati that has been a money-loser as well.

I hope that Stellantis takes a smarter approach than what was done in the past.
Stellantis seems to be aligned with investing in Maserati. I think that's appropriate as its the only real luxury brand in the portfolio. Hopefully they do the right thing and provide the brand with proper product so they can actually realize those potentially high profit margins.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Stellantis seems to be aligned with investing in Maserati. I think that's appropriate as its the only real luxury brand in the portfolio. Hopefully they do the right thing and provide the brand with proper product so they can actually realize those potentially high profit margins.
Yes. I did not mean it was unwise to invest in Maserati. But past investments were doing the same mistakes over and over while expecting a different outcome.
 

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I don't think the brands are blank slates, they have historic ranges that should be respected when adding crossover SUVs. I do agree with the aerodynamic coupe like crossovers for both brands.

Depending upon what is meant by the meaningless "B" class crossover label, something like that would be too small for Chrysler. Specifically the cargo room would need to be at least 20 cu ft for a Chrysler SUV, the 14 cu ft cargo area of the 500X, 18 cu ft cargo area of the Renegade, and 13 cu ft cargo area of the C4 hatchback are all unacceptable.

Lancia on the other hand can go as small as 4.0 m x 1.7 m for a "B class" crossover, shorter makes coupe like too difficult, narrower hurts handling.
Oh I forgot we're in 'Merica, B-segment (subcompact i.e Renegade/500X/Compass). The aim would be to go after the best handling in the class with Chrysler which is actually the most expensive--MINI Countryman. Dimensionally, there doesn't seem to be a limitation as you notice a few of these subcompacts are encroaching on what used to be compacts.

As for history, it's just that. When you are relegated to two models (Voyager doesn't count) at Chrysler and one at Lancia, they are literally blank slates to be reinvented.
 

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It is refreshing to see a real leader talk about the business. I am more and more confident that Tavares and the PSA team will show the EU side how to make money, gain market share and have decent quality from friendly dealerships.

I never thought I would be thankful for having the Portuguese and French as sober, competent executive leadership!!!!
Dear Lord:
Please grant Mr. Tavares & his team the wisdom & judgement to lead Stell/\ntis in the years to come.
Amen.

Querido Senhor:
Por favor, conceda ao Sr. Tavares e sua equipe a sabedoria e julgamento para liderar a Stell/\ntis nos proxima anos.
Um Homem.

Cher Seigneur:
Veuillez accorder a M. Tavares et a son equipe la sagesse et le jugement necessaires pour diriger Stell/\ntis dans les annees a venir.

Amen.
 

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Yes. I did not mean it was unwise to invest in Maserati. But past investments were doing the same mistakes over and over while expecting a different outcome.
It wasn't apparent from your earlier comment.
 

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Oh I forgot we're in 'Merica, B-segment (subcompact i.e Renegade/500X/Compass). The aim would be to go after the best handling in the class with Chrysler which is actually the most expensive--MINI Countryman. Dimensionally, there doesn't seem to be a limitation as you notice a few of these subcompacts are encroaching on what used to be compacts.

As for history, it's just that. When you are relegated to two models (Voyager doesn't count) at Chrysler and one at Lancia, they are literally blank slates to be reinvented.
The Compass isn't a subcompact, the Renegade is.

Compass 2,640 mm (103.9 in) 4,420 mm (174.0 in) 100 cu ft passenger, 27.2 cu ft cargo
Renegade 2,570 mm (101.2 in) 4,230 mm (166.6 in) 100 cu ft passenger, 18.5 cu ft cargo

Compass is the minimal size for a Chrysler, the Renegade would be an insult.

Countryman $29,100 2,670 mm (105.1 in) 4,313 mm (169.8 in) x 1,821 mm (71.7 in) x 1,557 mm (61.3 in)
Lexus UX $32,900 2,640 mm (103.9 in) 4,495 mm (177.0 in) x 1,840 mm (72.4 in) x 1,540 mm (60.6 in)

Lexus UX is exactly what the smallest Chrysler crossover SUV should go after, the Countryman isn't low slung and coupe like.

(Subcompact "B segment" is Yaris Cross, which is exactly what Lancia can go after).
 

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The Compass isn't a subcompact, the Renegade is.

Compass 2,640 mm (103.9 in) 4,420 mm (174.0 in) 100 cu ft passenger, 27.2 cu ft cargo
Renegade 2,570 mm (101.2 in) 4,230 mm (166.6 in) 100 cu ft passenger, 18.5 cu ft cargo


Compass is the minimal size for a Chrysler, the Renegade would be an insult.

Countryman $29,100 2,670 mm (105.1 in) 4,313 mm (169.8 in) x 1,821 mm (71.7 in) x 1,557 mm (61.3 in)
Lexus UX $32,900 2,640 mm (103.9 in) 4,495 mm (177.0 in) x 1,840 mm (72.4 in) x 1,540 mm (60.6 in)

Lexus UX is exactly what the smallest Chrysler crossover SUV should go after, the Countryman isn't low slung and coupe like.

(Subcompact "B segment" is Yaris Cross, which is exactly what Lancia can go after).
I know this is slightly off-topic, but after all these years, it still bothers me that the company spent so much money to produce Renegade and Compass...only to have the two vehicles so very close in size to each other.

There! With that off my chest...you can all go back to your previously scheduled cat-fight.:p:D
 

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I know this is slightly off-topic, but after all these years, it still bothers me that the company spent so much money to produce Renegade and Compass...only to have the two vehicles so very close in size to each other.

There! With that off my chest...you can all go back to your previously scheduled cat-fight.:p:D
Renegade is about Europe. They wanted to sell more Jeeps in Europe, 7.4" in length is a big deal to them, and worth the hit in cargo capacity for them. It is that simple, if looked at from a US perspective it doesn't make any sense. Percentage of Compass sales in the US would be even higher if it got the 1.3T as the Renegade did.

Compass in Europe
202047.312
201964.714
201873.941
201715.591
Renegade in Europe
202058.975
201978.842
201872.457
201772.578
201676.203
201553.940
20147.768

Compass in US
2020107.969
2019143.934
2018171.167
201783.253

Renegade in US
202062.847
201976.885
201897.062
2017103.434
2016106.605
201560.946
 

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If I remember correctly, the original plan was only for about 25k yearly sales of Renegade in US (or North America). However it sold much better than expected.
It is one of the few projects where demand was underestimated (unlike Fiat 500, Alfa, Maserati, etc.).
 

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If I remember correctly, the original plan was only for about 25k yearly sales of Renegade in US (or North America). However it sold much better than expected.
It is one of the few projects where demand was underestimated (unlike Fiat 500, Alfa, Maserati, etc.).
If they launched them in the other order with equal equipment Renegade would have never gained a foothold. 2.4 and 6 speed doesn't even match 2.4 and 9 speed, 1.3T and 9 speed is a far better combination and not available in Compass.

Look at the market segment, subcompact SUVs over a million a year, the ones Fiat, Alfa and Maserati launched into are very small.
 
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