[Fast Eddie]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/chrysler/2021/11/10/stellantis-cut-more-jobs-jeep-plant-belvidere-illinois/6380251001/

 

[ShawnP]

When does it close?

I say by late 2022.

Stellaimler wants cuts.

Product cut, jobs cut and soon it will be plants.

I'll say it. Belvidere gone, both Trenton plants gone and yes Brampton downsized to a battery plant.

 

[Dave Z]

Be fair. There are supply shortages.

 

[Chase300]

Well Tesla is opening a new plant in TX...and taxes are lower.
Or maybe Rivian is hiring?

 

[Dave Z]

Well Tesla is opening a new plant in TX...and taxes are lower.
Or maybe Rivian is hiring?

Rivian is hiring.

 

[bew]

As an owner of a 2019 Cherokee I feel like they could have done a lot more to keep it relevant and a bigger player in its segment. Maybe a hybrid or a better base engine. It’s sales we’re dipping long before the chip shortage.

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

Well Tesla is opening a new plant in TX...and taxes are lower.
Or maybe Rivian is hiring?

You're definitely sniffing down the right trail...

To put it as bluntly as I can...Ma Stella is preparing for WAR!!! You think that's a bit extreme?...I disagree most strongly.

There are dark storm clouds on the horizon. The disruption we've seen in the global automotive industry in the past is NOTHING compared to what is coming.

I'm old enough to remember the onslaught of the Japanese auto OEM invasion of the 1970's / 80's. I remember people at the time laughing and mocking the "funny looking little foreign cars" with the strange names. That laughing and mocking didn't last very long...

That invasion happened fairly quickly...aided by a couple of fuel shortages and the deteriorating North American economy of the early 1970's through early 1980's.

Some here might remember that GM once had a market share of over 50% and FoMoCo a market share of over 25%. They never really recovered from that, and...for that matter...neither did the former ChryCo.

The market changed FOREVER...and it's going to happen AGAIN!

I predict that in 24 months or less, we are going to see the first droplets of what will be a Tsunami of cars coming from a multitude of Chinese OEM's...in wave after wave after wave.
And China is playing for keeps.

Add to that the relentless march of Elon Inc....and...to a lesser extent...the other EV OEM's.

Speaking for myself, I have confidence that Ma Stella is in capable hands...lead by the highly capable battle-scarred veteran, "General Tavares".

There are going to be casualties in this major conflict, and I am sure "General Tavares" and his staff will do their best to make sure Ma Stella isn't one of them.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Here is one of the biggest reasons why Chinese EVs will dominate...they control the sources of the rare metals used in EVs that are not used in ICE vehicles....and those rare metals are getting harder and harder to extract, so prices are rising. The world is running out of materials and they are not renewable...which means prices are going up, up and up. Recycling can help, but is not sufficient to meet demand.

In other words, due to the Chinese control over the material sources, the Chinese EV manufacturers will have the lowest cost structure and can choose to undercut rivals on price while ensuring healthy profits. The Chinese can sell the materials to other companies as well, but they will never undercut their own auto manufacturers.

Secondly, since China cares less for workers and the environment, the mines they own are not operating with safety protocols and environmental safeguards compared to mines selling to western manufacturers. These mines tend to be located in poor areas where the people have already been horribly exploited and displaced in the mad rush to secure the materials needed for electrification.

But that disregard for people and the environment will give China an advantage in the market. The world has not shown any ability to get China to comply with much unless China wants to comply.

This is not a condemnation of EVs, but a focus on why the Chinese will have an advantage only.

This is a long read, focused mostly on wind/solar, but I feel it applies to EVs as well and is very balanced:

Mining the Planet to Death: The Dirty Truth About Clean Technologies - DER SPIEGEL (ampproject.org)

 

[plymouth1]

I feel you are correct Erik. Speaking for myself I will never buy a car built in China no matter what brand it says on the emblems

 

[Adventurer55]

Unless another way is found for batteries.

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

Unless another way is found for batteries.

Funny you should mention that......
Below, you'll find a couple of links taking note of the progress of developing alternative battery solutions...one for Aluminum-Ion, and another for Lithium-Sulfur.
In the case of the Aluminum-Air is NO LITHIUM, or other "rare-earths", and in the case of Lithium-Sulfur, the only rare-earth being lithium......the underlying message being that these batteries can be manufactured without having to beg mercy to China for the necessary minerals.

 

[Adventurer55]

While electrics may be the answer, I don't believe lithium is a long term answer. I think something else will be used. Maybe graphene aluminum will be. These new plants will need to be adaptable to change with the technology. Look how much cell phones have changed in 30 years. Cars themselves might not, but the way and size of the power source will, and the motors will most likely get smaller too.

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

UPDATE!
Aluminum-Graphene-Ion Battery One Step Closer In Coming To Market.
GMG (Graphene Manufacturing Group) Partners with BOSCH for manufacture of Aluminum-Graphene Batteries:

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

This is a short addendum to reply #7 in this thread, where my basic thrust is that legacy OEM's are facing a greater challenge on the EV front than they might think.

Please allow me to submit 2 pieces of circumstantial evidence to help support my viewpoint.:

 

[d150le]

I predict that in 24 months or less, we are going to see the first droplets of what will be a Tsunami of cars coming from a multitude of Chinese OEM's...in wave after wave after wave.
And China is playing for keeps.

This is going to be interesting. We'll see how strong and deeply rooted patriotism is, sadly I think it's more of an image thing than belief. We all keep buying foreign stuff...

 

[Chase300]

This is a short addendum to reply #7 in this thread, where my basic thrust is that legacy OEM's are facing a greater challenge on the EV front than they might think.

Please allow me to submit 2 pieces of circumstantial evidence to help support my viewpoint.:

So Chinese EV's have more range...he quoted 700 KM's = 430 miles! ...are far less expensive than German offerings, have the same interior QC levels while offering more features/tech???
Hard to believe...but if true, YIKES!!!

It is interesting all the new players in the US..we even have Apple jumping in. Not sure how many will be able to compete in the civilian space...but the commercial space is a viable target.

 

[serpens]

This is a short addendum to reply #7 in this thread, where my basic thrust is that legacy OEM's are facing a greater challenge on the EV front than they might think.

Please allow me to submit 2 pieces of circumstantial evidence to help support my viewpoint.:

As expected, this video isn't entirely accurate and is mainly based on weak initial German offerings with very little insight as to what's rolling out now and the near future. He goes on at length criticizing Mercedes for their adapted from ICE EV vehicles for example, when the dedicated-BEV platform vehicles are rolling out right now. The dedicated platform EQS (which makes an appearance in the video but wasn't explicitly talked about) has strong orders in China. All of the German automakers are creating operating systems for launch in 2024-2025 that will holistically control their digital "ecosystem"- this, along with range, are two areas where I agree the Chinese are leading. I will note it remains to be seen if these long-range Chinese vehicles are built to minimize battery degradation over time like other brands.

I don't think the Germans are doomed nor do I think Chinese vehicles are going to take over in this domestic market. They will be pushing all other global OEMs to step up their game though and quick and I do expect some luxury brands to be taking some reputational hits. Based on what I hear in the industry people are still more concerned about the Koreans more than anything which I find interesting.

Will be interesting to see how Xpeng and Nio do in Europe to start. Bring on the competition!

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

As expected, this video isn't entirely accurate and is mainly based on weak initial German offerings with very little insight as to what's rolling out now and the near future. He goes on at length criticizing Mercedes for their adapted from ICE EV vehicles for example, when the dedicated-BEV platform vehicles are rolling out right now. The dedicated platform EQS (which makes an appearance in the video but wasn't explicitly talked about) has strong orders in China. All of the German automakers are creating operating systems for launch in 2024-2025 that will holistically control their digital "ecosystem"- this, along with range, are two areas where I agree the Chinese are leading. I will note it remains to be seen if these long-range Chinese vehicles are built to minimize battery degradation over time like other brands.

I don't think the Germans are doomed nor do I think Chinese vehicles are going to take over in this domestic market. They will be pushing all other global OEMs to step up their game though and quick and I do expect some luxury brands to be taking some reputational hits. Based on what I hear in the industry people are still more concerned about the Koreans more than anything which I find interesting.

Will be interesting to see how Xpeng and Nio do in Europe to start. Bring on the competition!

In the interests of fairness, "The Electric Viking"...like most of us...has an ax to grind, (even though he protests to the contrary).

I find that his take on things forces me to exercise my brain cells and do more thinking for myself...always a good thing.

Some of you folks here might remember that during The Second World War, there were regular propaganda radio broadcasts from Japan featuring a woman who called herself "Tokyo Rose".
By that same token.....I consider "The Electric Viking" to be......"Melbourne Sam".

 

[Chase300]

Based on what I hear in the industry people are still more concerned about the Koreans more than anything

I can believe this...they have impressive ICE vehicles and the reviews I've seen of the new EV offerings are likewise impressive and ready for prime time. The recent Hybrid SUV's have great reviews too...better than the equivalent ICE versions. Buckle up!

 

[unverferth]

As an owner of a 2019 Cherokee I feel like they could have done a lot more to keep it relevant and a bigger player in its segment. Maybe a hybrid or a better base engine. It’s sales we’re dipping long before the chip shortage.

We have a 2019 Cherokee V6 and it's awesome. Have zero problems so far.