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Well, China isn't looking so pretty, now that her lipstick is smeared, so to speak. There is a lot of distrust for any long term commitment with China, lately, given it's increasingly martial tone.
Certainly in N/A and here in Canada, anti-PRC sentiment is high and growing, due to our own political issues with Beijing. Donald Trump also ratcheted up anti-PRC sentiment during his time in office.
Any Large multi-national really has to think about how involved it wants to be there, in terms of intellectual property rights, human rights, and public relations in general. As a Director of such a corporation, or entity, I would be exceedingly careful of getting too deeply involved in China, especially since it has not proved terribly lucrative as yet.
I'm not sure that Stellantis has the will or the want to invest so deeply in a country that has no respect for international law or morality. Keep a finger in the pie, but don't wade into the swamp just yet, is the way I would look at that situation.
 

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The industrial trend for the past several years has been to divert resources and efforts to "high growth regions". China was among those regions.
"High growth" doesn't necessarily mean "high profit", and starving core markets to expand in these markets won't always pay off - something that should have been obvious from the very beginning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well the china plants as also the india and turkey plants are jv s. FCA has risked very little in trying to grow in such markets. PSA on the other hand over invested in china and has suffered financially. Even the new Brazilian Jeep centric plant is based on very large government subsidies. I.e., capital allocation rigour by marchionne in emerging markets including china. Besides high growth is besides the point: these were pretty much white space markets for fca since they were starting from nearZero.

The n american market had been hugely invested in including all plants the returns from which will have taken years. It is fca europe that was starved of investment albeit that there had been and still is a recession and sclerosis in europe post 2010 (euro zone debt crisis etc) and now again (pandemic).... hence merger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
China has been in slowdown or worse mode for 2 years prior to current post covid etc slowdown there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
They should focus henceforth on a topdown high margin low volumes approach, multi brand, in china. Do assembly of knocked down kits of vehicles near fully exported from italy, n america andor france. With focus on the new big semi luxe jeeps, new alfas opels and of course maserati. Maybe bev techy chryslers too? But risk much less in china mass market for which fca was in any case too late, and maybe leave it altogether....since peugeot citroen and ds brands have lost so much money there continuously.
 

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Exactly....it is difficult to competitively sell a vehicle in China if not partnered with a JV and produced locally; the government makes it nearly impossible. This is just consolidation and a new strategy moving forward as Stellantis; nothing more and nothing less.
 

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Exactly....it is difficult to competitively sell a vehicle in China if not partnered with a JV and produced locally; the government makes it nearly impossible. This is just consolidation and a new strategy moving forward as Stellantis; nothing more and nothing less.
Since Xi consolidated power in 2018 and the JVs provided no advantage unless a leading party member was on the board. This has led to many foreign companies leaving their JVs to the Chinese half as well as all their intellectual property.

The Chinese are pushing out foreign manufacturers in favor of domestics. I predict no foreign auto company will do very well in the next 5 years.
 

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Since Xi consolidated power in 2018 and the JVs provided no advantage unless a leading party member was on the board. This has led to many foreign companies leaving their JVs to the Chinese half as well as all their intellectual property.

The Chinese are pushing out foreign manufacturers in favor of domestics. I predict no foreign auto company will do very well in the next 5 years.
It’s probably a smart plan from their own perspective. Why give sales to foreign corporations when you can develop and expand your domestic producers. Besides, they probably feel that they’ve stolen…um…learned enough from the JV’s that they feel that they don’t need the partners anymore.
 

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Since Xi consolidated power in 2018 and the JVs provided no advantage unless a leading party member was on the board. This has led to many foreign companies leaving their JVs to the Chinese half as well as all their intellectual property.

The Chinese are pushing out foreign manufacturers in favor of domestics. I predict no foreign auto company will do very well in the next 5 years.
What?

Actually since few years ago JV is not needed for Chinese production.
Things have changed for better.
 

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What?

Actually since few years ago JV is not needed for Chinese production.
Things have changed for better.
You could not be more wrong.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
He is right: jv s are no longer compulsory. In fact i believe bmw had recently completely bought out their chinese quasi-state-firm jv partner entirely.
 

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He is right: jv s are no longer compulsory. In fact i believe bmw had recently completely bought out their chinese quasi-state-firm jv partner entirely.
I am pretty sure he was talking about the things have changed for the better part when he said you could not be more wrong.
 

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I am pretty sure he was talking about the things have changed for the better part when he said you could not be more wrong.
Yes, China has made it more difficult for foreign firms over the past few years.

The "Anti-Sanctions Law" is just one example.

Many foreign companies, not just autos, are seeing falling profits in China.

The Chinese gov't is harassing foreign businesses under the guide of "data security" or "anti-trust" conducting investigations and costing companies big money.
 

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It’s probably a smart plan from their own perspective. Why give sales to foreign corporations when you can develop and expand your domestic producers. Besides, they probably feel that they’ve stolen…um…learned enough from the JV’s that they feel that they don’t need the partners anymore.
The same thing is happening in the area of military / defense technology and intellectual property stolen...um...learned from Russia.

I'm pretty sure Russia regrets ever dealing with China in such areas.
 

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The same thing is happening in the area of military / defense technology and intellectual property stolen...um...learned from Russia.

I'm pretty sure Russia regrets ever dealing with China in such areas.
Anymore, it may be the Russians who need to steal from the Chinese. As they modernize their military, the Chinese are probably ahead of the Russians in many ways, and with more money to spend.
 
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Anymore, it may be the Russians who need to steal from the Chinese. As they modernize their military, the Chinese are probably ahead of the Russians in many ways, and with more money to spend.
The Russians have enough hackers to just steal from us... except then they'll need to fix their military equipment constantly.
 

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The Russians have enough hackers to just steal from us... except then they'll need to fix their military equipment constantly.
That’s pretty much their baseline, so they’re used to it. :LOL:
 
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