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Stellantis downsizing in China

5K views 36 replies 12 participants last post by  Dave Z 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Well, China isn't looking so pretty, now that her lipstick is smeared, so to speak. There is a lot of distrust for any long term commitment with China, lately, given it's increasingly martial tone.
Certainly in N/A and here in Canada, anti-PRC sentiment is high and growing, due to our own political issues with Beijing. Donald Trump also ratcheted up anti-PRC sentiment during his time in office.
Any Large multi-national really has to think about how involved it wants to be there, in terms of intellectual property rights, human rights, and public relations in general. As a Director of such a corporation, or entity, I would be exceedingly careful of getting too deeply involved in China, especially since it has not proved terribly lucrative as yet.
I'm not sure that Stellantis has the will or the want to invest so deeply in a country that has no respect for international law or morality. Keep a finger in the pie, but don't wade into the swamp just yet, is the way I would look at that situation.
 
#4 ·
The industrial trend for the past several years has been to divert resources and efforts to "high growth regions". China was among those regions.
"High growth" doesn't necessarily mean "high profit", and starving core markets to expand in these markets won't always pay off - something that should have been obvious from the very beginning.
 
#5 ·
Well the china plants as also the india and turkey plants are jv s. FCA has risked very little in trying to grow in such markets. PSA on the other hand over invested in china and has suffered financially. Even the new Brazilian Jeep centric plant is based on very large government subsidies. I.e., capital allocation rigour by marchionne in emerging markets including china. Besides high growth is besides the point: these were pretty much white space markets for fca since they were starting from nearZero.

The n american market had been hugely invested in including all plants the returns from which will have taken years. It is fca europe that was starved of investment albeit that there had been and still is a recession and sclerosis in europe post 2010 (euro zone debt crisis etc) and now again (pandemic).... hence merger.
 
#7 ·
They should focus henceforth on a topdown high margin low volumes approach, multi brand, in china. Do assembly of knocked down kits of vehicles near fully exported from italy, n america andor france. With focus on the new big semi luxe jeeps, new alfas opels and of course maserati. Maybe bev techy chryslers too? But risk much less in china mass market for which fca was in any case too late, and maybe leave it altogether....since peugeot citroen and ds brands have lost so much money there continuously.
 
#9 ·
Exactly....it is difficult to competitively sell a vehicle in China if not partnered with a JV and produced locally; the government makes it nearly impossible. This is just consolidation and a new strategy moving forward as Stellantis; nothing more and nothing less.
 
#10 ·
Since Xi consolidated power in 2018 and the JVs provided no advantage unless a leading party member was on the board. This has led to many foreign companies leaving their JVs to the Chinese half as well as all their intellectual property.

The Chinese are pushing out foreign manufacturers in favor of domestics. I predict no foreign auto company will do very well in the next 5 years.
 
#22 ·

Stellantis increasing stake in china jv with state owned GAC
 
#26 ·
Yes a Chrysler twin of the next gen chinese Jeep Grand Commander with the latest possible foxconn JV UI, tech, and of course phev/bev is a good idea...for exports to n america, as knocked down kit for assembly or fully built? Irrespective of whether they launch chrysler in china itself. But FIRST: a windsor 'made' Portal or Airflow to relaunch the brand as techy bev, affordable high quality Tesla as it were etc.? 2023 and after.
 
#28 ·
I agree that the first "new" Chrysler should not come from China. That would be a media disaster for the brand in North America.

Portal is also a mistake. Chrysler is not a "people mover" and never was. Trying to turn Chrysler into the minivan brand was another FCA blunder. Dodge was the minivan brand. Chrysler Town & Country minivans were higher margin and higher luxury Caravans, not the mainstream minivan.

My opinion is Chrysler has to be fashionable, yet affordable. Getting into a technology war is for brands with unlimited resources. Chrysler will never "out-tech" Tesla or the other start-ups. Chrysler should not be a testing ground for autonomous driving or other trendy technologies. Chrysler needs to be reliable, dependable but fashionable.

In other words, I think Chrysler should be the designer alternative to Toyota. Toyota is dependable but bland. Chrysler should be dependable but cool. Toyota is Walmart, Chrysler is Target. Toyota is a plain Band-Aid. Chrysler should be a Varvatos print Band-Aid.

The John Varvatos Chrysler 300 was a success. It needed to be built upon and pushed further.
 
#27 ·
It seems they are indeed going to assemble the imported usa spec Jeeps in china, from knocked down kits apparently, positioned as full on 'luxury' models. That import business has been dovetailed into the amended jv with GAC. They are assembling the Wrangler in India already, and will also the Grand C /L, also for rexport to rhd japan australia etc. There is a large margin boost availble for high priced models just by getting behind tariff walls EVEN if only assembly occurs and no local manufacture. As it is: plenty of parts are sourced from China andor India. And cheaper product development, r&d, technical work esp IT related is also an advantage of a meaningful operation in the likes of china andor india.
 
#29 ·
Hope they backpedal citroen and peugeot in china: they've already wasted too much capital. DS was China first at launch as a brand so it seems they will persist with it there. In China stellantis should emphasize the higher margin brands and products even if only assembled from kits imported from usa italy or france. I.e., Jeep Maserati AlfaRomeo.... andor DS andor Opel andor Chrysler if and when these last 3 endup sharing enough under the skin post say 2024, once stellantis operationalizes the ev and tech commonization outlined on the recent EV day.
 
#30 ·
I think a revised Portal is just whats needed, basic work has been done, update the engineering and styling to something a customer would actually want to buy. Chrysler's greatest survival characteristic has been it's audacity in engineering, styling, and way of doing business, don't forget WHO purchased both Dodge and Jeep, which resulted in it's own limited survival today. Although I personally despise the styling of the Portal, it is the most likely direction for Chrysler, and it should lead the way, just like the Airflow, Forward Look, LHS, and LX, did.
I agree with the Toyota comparison in one way, start with one really good product, and keep improving on it, build in quality and reliability, and while you're doing that continue to improve your existing product as well. make a cycle of continuous improvement the norm, instead of the exception.
 
#31 ·
I think a revised Portal is just whats needed, basic work has been done, update the engineering and styling to something a customer would actually want to buy. Chrysler's greatest survival characteristic has been it's audacity in engineering, styling, and way of doing business, don't forget WHO purchased both Dodge and Jeep, which resulted in it's own limited survival today. Although I personally despise the styling of the Portal, it is the most likely direction for Chrysler, and it should lead the way, just like the Airflow, Forward Look, LHS, and LX, did.
I agree with the Toyota comparison in one way, start with one really good product, and keep improving on it, build in quality and reliability, and while you're doing that continue to improve your existing product as well. make a cycle of continuous improvement the norm, instead of the exception.
The Portal is going on 5 years old. It should be left in the past.

Let Christine Feuell chart the direction and not be shackled by the failures of the past.
 
#36 ·
As expected sales are rather underwhelming. 232% of next to nothing is still next to nothing.

"Jeep sales in the Asian nation are expected to increase 10% this year to more than 15,000 units."

 
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