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According to an article on Carscoops Stellantis will only be the 6th largest automaker, not the 4th largest.

" Poor sales in Europe and weakness in China would have resulted in Stellantis being the world’s 6th largest carmaker in 2020, instead of the 4th largest."

" Toyota (6.68 million units), VW Group (6.18 million units), Renault-Nissan (5.54 million units), GM (4.72 million units) and Hyundai-KIA (4.50 million units)."

Also it seems to me that Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi don't deserve to be counted together, while GM sales in China are missing.

 

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Stellantis will keep shrinking too as they continue to neglect their most profitable region... North America. And if Chrysler and Dodge disappear, that means they will be even smaller.

I remember when Chrysler's were selling 800k and Dodge's around a million a year. It wasn't even that long ago. They had complete lineups...
 

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Stellantis will keep shrinking too as they continue to neglect their most profitable region... North America. And if Chrysler and Dodge disappear, that means they will be even smaller.

I remember when Chrysler's were selling 800k and Dodge's around a million a year. It wasn't even that long ago. They had complete lineups...
That was the whole purpose of the merger.....Marchionne knew the company needed volume and platform sharing.

They decided that was too hard and chased margins and profits so they could do a merger (those are two of several things that increase value in a merger).

Now it falls to Stellantis (Tavares) to increase volume and platform sharing.....not as easy as sending letters to GM and attempting to depress their stock price so you can engineer a hostile takeover.
 

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Yes, the hard work has now been passed to Tavares and his people. It's obvious that new or highly revised platforms are going to be needed to platform share. The mishmash of platforms they have between the two simply aren't suited for their worldwide sales goals. Especially here in NA if they want to increase sales in something other then trucks or Jeep SUVs. Some will argue that's all that's needed here. I disagree
 

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Yes, the hard work has now been passed to Tavares and his people. It's obvious that new or highly revised platforms are going to be needed to platform share. The mishmash of platforms they have between the two simply aren't suited for their worldwide sales goals. Especially here in NA if they want to increase sales in something other then trucks or Jeep SUVs. Some will argue that's all that's needed here. I disagree
EMP1/CMP and EMP2 should cover 2/3 of needs globally, 60% of needs in the US. Giorgio global gets another 10-20%. Giorgio global is Giorgio revised for the US. Making EMP1/CMP and EMP2 work for the US is about the same effort it took to change the 2.0 Diesel Doblo into the 2.4/9 speed ProMaster City, less than that used to turn Giulietta into Dart. The Ducato/Ram Promaster conversion has already been done. Pickups, Minivans and mini cars by their nature are not global products. Wrangler/Gladiator are mostly for the US market as well.

And pickup sales were at or under 100k.
'06-'07 was around 350K, which means 650K cars, SUVs and minivans for Dodge.
 

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Yes, the hard work has now been passed to Tavares and his people. It's obvious that new or highly revised platforms are going to be needed to platform share. The mishmash of platforms they have between the two simply aren't suited for their worldwide sales goals. Especially here in NA if they want to increase sales in something other then trucks or Jeep SUVs. Some will argue that's all that's needed here. I disagree
Look at the top auto companies in the world....they platform share like crazy.

In the first 5-year plan, it looked like Marchionne was interested in mass platform sharing. But that never happened.

Those plans (and the second 5 year plan) were scrapped in favor of chasing margins by cheapening parts and reducing dealer reibursements for warranty work. That change was when Marchionne knew he could not grow the volume of the company with his capabilities. He needed a merger partner to grow the volume of the company.

After GM and Renault publicly failed to agree (there were many more companies behind the scenes) the opportunity with PSA came up as the last resort. It was written about here on Allpar that PSA was the lowest on the list of companies to merge with.

Now Tavares needs to increase volume or close many plants. Yes, they will not be the #4 automaker by volume unless they can change things dramatically.

In order to grow volume, Stellantis will have to platform share and make a serious committment to quality, safety and reliability over the long-term. Dealer relations need to be repaired so customers have positive experiences.

How much of what happens in North America is on Manley vs Tavares? We will see.
 

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Giorgio global is Giorgio revised for the US.
Giorgio was sold in the US as the Alfa Giulia and Stelvio.

Yes, Giorgio Global is something new.....more money into a platform that was supposed to be the future for all RWD models from Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Alfa and Maserati.

So far, we only know it will be under the Grand Cherokee and Grand Cherokee L. Nothing else is on the horizon using this.

So, FCA added another platform to their big mix while other automakers are reducing the number of platforms.
 

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Giorgio was sold in the US as the Alfa Giulia and Stelvio.

Yes, Giorgio Global is something new.....more money into a platform that was supposed to be the future for all RWD models from Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Alfa and Maserati.

So far, we only know it will be under the Grand Cherokee and Grand Cherokee L. Nothing else is on the horizon using this.

So, FCA added another platform to their big mix while other automakers are reducing the number of platforms.
Giorgio Global is not what you or @David S are saying. It's not another name for Allpar product named GUS. :ROFLMAO:

It's a Giorgio variant for PHEV/BEV. It's not different to what some other car makers are doing. Car makers which didn't opt for a dedicated BEV platforms.
 

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Giorgio Global is not what you or @David S are saying. It's not another name for Allpar product named GUS. :ROFLMAO:

It's a Giorgio variant for PHEV/BEV. It's not different to what some other car makers are doing. Car makers which didn't opt for a dedicated BEV platforms.
Thank you.

Giorgio Global is a Giorgio variant because they didn't get it right the first time and needed to spend more money.

Giorgio was supposed to be a global RWD platform. It ended up as specific to Alfa Giulia & Stelvio.

The FACT that Giorgio is incapable of PHEV/BEV demonstrates the short-sightedness of the management.
 
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EMP1/CMP and EMP2 should cover 2/3 of needs globally, 60% of needs in the US. Giorgio global gets another 10-20%. Giorgio global is Giorgio revised for the US. Making EMP1/CMP and EMP2 work for the US is about the same effort it took to change the 2.0 Diesel Doblo into the 2.4/9 speed ProMaster City, less than that used to turn Giulietta into Dart. The Ducato/Ram Promaster conversion has already been done. Pickups, Minivans and mini cars by their nature are not global products. Wrangler/Gladiator are mostly for the US market as well.


'06-'07 was around 350K, which means 650K cars, SUVs and minivans for Dodge.
I was talking about sales before the T-300 debut in 1994. Dodge is still a viable brand, but without new products and being painted solely as a male enhancement of anatomy, it is boxed itself into a corner. While they are good products, those products will begin lose their viability as they continue to age.
 

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Now that a Durango replacement will start production in 2 months, we can see how easy it would be to shut Dodge.

Brampton got nothing in the new contract. Could it be closed in the next 3 years? Of course.

Chrysler could get something electric from Windsor on a PSA platform as Pacifica gets replaced to be on a PSA platform.
 

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Didn't they just announce in August 1.2 billion for Brampton for phev/bev vehicles?

The 300 chassis is great but the car needs a suave makeover to pick up sales but it's maybe wrong car wrong decade.

Stellantis in my opinion will be most challenged on the powertrain side of the equation.

There is volume to be had in the medium and heavy duty business....oh and some profit.
 

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Stellantis will keep shrinking too as they continue to neglect their most profitable region... North America. And if Chrysler and Dodge disappear, that means they will be even smaller.

I remember when Chrysler's were selling 800k and Dodge's around a million a year. It wasn't even that long ago. They had complete lineups...
Why do you assume continued neglect (of C&D)? No matter how logical it may seem, Stellantis is not FCA, and Tavares is not Marchionne. The answer is found in the Opel turnaround, IMO.
 
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Why do you assume continued neglect (of C&D)? No matter how logical it may seem, Stellantis is not FCA, and Tavares is not Marchionne. The answer is found in the Opel turnaround, IMO.
Tavares is like Marchionne, just worse....Luckily there's JE who will decide pretty much all the vital things.....
 

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Until something positive comes from Tavares' office about Dodge or Chrysler, I'm sure the talk will not cease. FCA could've stopped it, but they have chosen to say nothing about new products for the brands. Even the Windsor announcement was almost a non announcement, given it'll take place after the current contract.
 

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Didn't they just announce in August 1.2 billion for Brampton for phev/bev vehicles?

The 300 chassis is great but the car needs a suave makeover to pick up sales but it's maybe wrong car wrong decade.

Stellantis in my opinion will be most challenged on the powertrain side of the equation.

There is volume to be had in the medium and heavy duty business....oh and some profit.
No, they announced $50 million for Brampton for the next 3 years, which equates to stickers and packages. for Charger/Chalenger.

Warren gets an investment for an electric vehicle in 4 years..... the contract is for 3 years.
 

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Why do you assume continued neglect (of C&D)? No matter how logical it may seem, Stellantis is not FCA, and Tavares is not Marchionne. The answer is found in the Opel turnaround, IMO.
Yes I do expect continued neglect. Everyone keeps saying "Tavares this" and Tavares that" and that he will be the savior. I hope so. But I don't expect or think that will happen. He isn't going to directly control what happens with Chrysler or Dodge. He is going to be working over in Europe with the Euro brands. We will have the same incompetence or lack of caring leaders here in the US running Chrysler and Dodge. Sure the C/D folks want the brands to succeed, but the one's in charge don't seem to care. Isn't it Manley who will be in charge or something? If so, nothing will happen good to C/D.
 
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