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They won't mold the trucks back into Dodge. It's one of the things that even though I didn't really agree with seems to have worked. Dodge on the other hand, could use a sedan like the Alfa, and remove the exotic parts, put the 2.0T engine and 8sp. But here's the downside, for volume needed, they would need lower models that would be cheaper, and they really don't have a good base engine to use, unless the Pentastar is it. Then you might as well buy a Charger. More room and close to the same economy I'd imagine.
2.0T is 270 hp, Pentastar is around 300 hp, depending upon the exhaust. 2.0T is fine, if you need something more basic detune it to 200 HP, as they do for the base Giulia in Europe.

Many people don't want a big full sized car.
 

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Yes, I am afraid the "fold Ram back into Dodge" ship has sailed. I totally understand those that want this.

Using Dodge to share with Alfa was the original plan. Volume lowers costs. Alfa would make even better margins if it shared. But previous management lacked such thinking.

The new management understands sharing. Alfa will share going forward with the other EU brands. What, if anything, it shares with the US brands will be interesting.
They had the thinking, but then rejected it when it couldn't beat BMW at the ring. That was what drove Alfa up too high upmarket where it had never been, and it failed again.
 

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What's so terrible about the present identity of the brand?'
Having Dodge occupy the big hole left behind by GM's murdering of Pontiac makes sense to me.

That being said...the brand model lineup DESPERATELY needs to be filled out!
The present brand identity is much too narrow for Dodge If it keeps the present identity it will be dead in 10-20 years. It needs to be Stellantis' Chevy, economy cars to the Viper, and give it back the pickups as well.
 

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Dodge can't offer an Italian sports sedan or CUV. Alfa doesn't offer an American muscle car. A relative handful of Americans pay $100,000 for 800 HP beefed-up versions of $28,000 Dodges to hit the track, or just outrun their buddies from stoplight to stoplight (which is not an endorsement of street racing). A base Giulia is $39,000. Stelvio starts at $41,000.

Note that the guy saying this drives a sub-$40k Dodge he bought new in 2009: Dodge is not going to command AR prices or margin for Giorgio at the base level, and I don't see how they can command it at QV levels. Not and make sales numbers acceptable to Dodge. People who are in the market that AR is in are buying BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. not Dodges. Dodge was, is, and most likely always will be a blue collar brand. Sure, some guys with big checkbooks will buy a Hellcat, but it's still a good ol' Dodge. And that's okay. I hope to keep this one.

AR was set up for failure by FCA. There's a laundry list that doesn't need to be regurgitated as to why Alfa "failed" the return. Address the list and Alfa has a chance. Frankly, word on the street is already showing positive signs. They seem to have the car done right finally. They just need to take care of the customer.

Dodge is not Chrysler is not Alfa Romeo. Please quit pitting Dodge and/or Chrysler against Alfa Romeo.
It was FCA that was pitting Alfa against Dodge. Send it back to Europe then it won't be pitted against Dodge and Chrysler.
 

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They had the thinking, but then rejected it when it couldn't beat BMW at the ring. That was what drove Alfa up too high upmarket where it had never been, and it failed again.
No proven cause-effect relationship. I'm tired of repeating myself.

It was FCA that was pitting Alfa against Dodge. Send it back to Europe then it won't be pitted against Dodge and Chrysler.
Utter nonsense.
 

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2.0T is 270 hp, Pentastar is around 300 hp, depending upon the exhaust. 2.0T is fine, if you need something more basic detune it to 200 HP, as they do for the base Giulia in Europe.

Many people don't want a big full sized car.
I agree, but I was thinking more along the lines of a base non turbo four that wasn't ancient, which they don't offer. And what is the torque output of the 2.0T compared to the Pentastar?
 

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They had the thinking, but then rejected it when it couldn't beat BMW at the ring. That was what drove Alfa up too high upmarket where it had never been, and it failed again.
Must I repeat myself? Very well, then. If I must:

Comparing Dodge and Chrysler sales to AR is a JOKE, and you know it. Or you should.
  1. The intro of Giulia was a total BOTCH in the media, and AR took too darn long to fix it.
  2. Nobody thinks AR is going to stay in NA. Of COURSE sales of have been dismal.
  3. You want FCA brand management to end?
    1. Accept that Sergio is dead. What SM said in 2015ish about AR sales is irrelevant to today's argument.
    2. Accept that Stellantis isn't going back to pre-DCX. That business model of be all things to all people is part of how we got here.
  4. Quit pitting AR against Dodge and/or Chrysler. That's acting out of a sense of scarcity, and no good decisions are made there.
  5. FIX AR (ALL BRANDS), flesh it out some more, and give folks in NA a reason to believe. This applies to ALL BRANDS.
  6. Don't make it - or make it out to be - "Italian Dodge" or vice versa. That's a weak business model.
Alfa's failure is a multi-faceted issue:
  • poor initial execution of Giulia
  • poor post-sale support (brand and dealer)
  • lack of good brand management (they needed Tonalé 2-3 years ago, for example)

It's pretty apparent that customers haven't trusted that Alfa was going to even be around
  • with only two models
  • combined with the problem of massively bad press regarding their reliability
  • along with the happenstance of COVID hitting just when AR's marketing campaigns like sponsoring Bimmerfest - a major 2019 guerilla marketing coup - had really just gotten going
  • plus the dealership issues (lacking in number and quality), has just killed sales in the US.
Poor dealerships aggravate established brand customers like BMW, but they practically KILL a brand like AR trying to take off. Nevermind the basic LACK of dealerships in the US. AR has half as many dealers in this country as BMW! They're only just now at a point where the automotive reliability is no longer being questioned so much by the press, but it ALWAYS comes up. ALWAYS!

At at time when BMW is practically offering AR their driver enthusiast market, you think we should follow suit? That might make sense for an Audi, or a DS, but AR is a whole different breed of cat, with a potentially lucrative opportunity to capture more of the enthusiast market, which is natural for AR.

Alfa needs a restart.
It...has potential for global cachet with proper management of the brand, products, and production. Alfa can be made to work as a premium sports coupe, sedan, and crossover brand, and there's no excuse not to. None. Just as unconscionable as letting Chrysler rot to nothing.

As far as...AR cars, and those assumptions, OF COURSE they were insignificant in NA. Who the heck is going to buy thinking that a foreign brand wasn't going to be serviceable because it wasn't going to be around in some uncertain period of time???

As the car mag guys say, it's not that folks didn't WANT to like AR. The enthusiasts REALLY wanted AR to succeed. They STILL want AR to succeed. Fix the issues, the enthusiasts will sell the cars.

There is no "overlap" (between Dodge and AR). They're of a totally different dynamic and market segment (domestic vs foreign road-course oriented - AR buyers and Dodge buyers are mosty not co-located on a Venn diagram).

As for Alfa, that's largely a function of poor market execution by AR, not of where it would presumptively be if it had been done right in the first place, and not also suffocated the same as Chrysler and Dodge...comparing Dodge and AR on spec really misses all of the nuance of what makes Dodge "Dodge," and Alfa "Alfa." Massively so.
 

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2.0T is 270 hp, Pentastar is around 300 hp, depending upon the exhaust. 2.0T is fine, if you need something more basic detune it to 200 HP, as they do for the base Giulia in Europe.

Many people don't want a big full sized car.
1.5 turbo isn't coming?

I can't say what else is coming.
 

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I don't think he was talking about restarting the 1993 assembly line without changes. Just a narrower and lower full size pickup.
I’d be happy if they did. I have a 1990 sitting in my garage that needs some new panels due to rust through especially the roof. If I could buy one brand new I’d be giddy
 

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The present brand identity is much too narrow for Dodge If it keeps the present identity it will be dead in 10-20 years. It needs to be Stellantis' Chevy, economy cars to the Viper, and give it back the pickups as well.
Just because FoMoCo & GM don't realize that luxury pick-ups shouldn't be hanging out with their Fiesta's/Ecosport's or Spark's/Trax's (because you, obviously, want to be associated with those who can't afford your tastes, unlike literally every other customer ever..... did we have a discussion about how people who would own 60k Jeep's didn't want to be in the same waiting room with Dart owners), doesn't mean Stellantis should join them.
Again: if your gonna make Dodge pick-ups again, then literally screw all the brands and just make Dodge everything. It does NOT make sense anymore. Dodge trucks were never known for the luxury and ride the Ram's are known for now.
 

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A couple of people have mentioned how Ram has near luxury, very expensive pickups and how that couldn't fit under Dodge.
Now I'm not saying that pickups should be back under the Dodge name but let me ask this question.
How can all the front wheel drive cargo work vans fit under the Ram name? Those products sure don't fit with luxury pickups.
 

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One thing I gotta say Ford and GM are ramping up quickly with electric vehicles. I look at my 3 1/2 grand daughter and imagine how tough her future will be if we keep burning dino juice. See electrics available on YouTube.
 

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A couple of people have mentioned how Ram has near luxury, very expensive pickups and how that couldn't fit under Dodge.
Now I'm not saying that pickups should be back under the Dodge name but let me ask this question.
How can all the front wheel drive cargo work vans fit under the Ram name? Those products sure don't fit with luxury pickups.
Yes if you buy the argument that economy cars don't belong on the same lot as muscle cars, then the ProMaster (City) trucks don't belong on the same lot as loaded Ram 1500 trucks. It just show how absurd their argument is. We don't need 9 brands in North America for every niche like Stellantis has now in Europe. CDJR can sell in multiple market segments, as they historically have done.
 

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I agree, but I was thinking more along the lines of a base non turbo four that wasn't ancient, which they don't offer. And what is the torque output of the 2.0T compared to the Pentastar?
2.0T 270 hp (5000-5300 rpm) 295 lb-ft (2800-4700 rpm)
3.6 295 hp (6400 rpm) 260 lb-ft (4700 rpm)

Unless you are revving the 3.6 over 5500 rpm the curves for the 2.0T are better.
 

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Here’s the problem. Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, and Alfa all need reborn. So really does Maserati. And Jeep has vehicles long overdue for replacement but at least a couple new products are on the way. And Lancia is probably the worst. Only Ram is sufficiently positioned.
We are truly suffering a hangover from the period when excuses, rather than new product, was the primary output.
I honestly believe now is not the time to expend a lot of effort trying to get Americans into Alfa’s. That’s something that will consume a lot of resources. Let Alfa build up where Alfa is already strong. Same for Dodge and Chrysler.
 

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Until they figure out what to do with Chrysler and Dodge, Ram and Jeep will have to shoulder the burden. The Compass and Renegade could be spruced up until they get replaced. It wasn't all lost on the comparison with a brand new Bronco Sport. Different tires and more guts under the hood would be a big help right now and at least make them not look so bad. I saw a new Compass base yesterday with those awful wheels. It just screams cheapness. At least put wheels on them that look good. It reminds me of a Dodge Spirit with those god awful grey plastic covers they used. Can't they get past that? Probably the same company making them.
 

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Until they figure out what to do with Chrysler and Dodge, Ram and Jeep will have to shoulder the burden. The Compass and Renegade could be spruced up until they get replaced. It wasn't all lost on the comparison with a brand new Bronco Sport. Different tires and more guts under the hood would be a big help right now and at least make them not look so bad. I saw a new Compass base yesterday with those awful wheels. It just screams cheapness. At least put wheels on them that look good. It reminds me of a Dodge Spirit with those god awful grey plastic covers they used. Can't they get past that? Probably the same company making them.
The Compass has been refreshed in other markets, so we should see it soon here.

If the hybrid powertrain in the Compass is good and power is strong, then it will be better.

But I doubt the Trailhawk version will improve much until the product is replaced in 3-5 years.

So, if you want the most capable compact CUV, buy a Bronco Sport Badlands.
 

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If the hybrid powertrain in the Compass is good and power is strong, then it will be better.
HEV in Compass? AFAIK Compass will not get HEV and this is valid for (almost) every STLA car. Only MHEVs and PHEVs.

Compass will get P2.5 MHEV mated to the new 1.5 liter turbo engine. P2.5 MHEV is close to HEV technology in terms of efficiency and functionality.
 
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