Dodge in the late 00's:See, this is the problem. None of the brands are volunteering to be the "volume" brand, and the fans of a particular brand tend to want some other brand to be the volume brand so their favorite can be the higher end one (sort of like the brand chiefs, to be honest). FCA doesn't HAVE a volume brand right now. At all. The de-facto highest selling brand seems to be Jeep, but even though it's "the" volume brand right now, it's not "a" volume brand. Especially with them dropping 2WD models, it's going back to the rough-road brand. As @eastcoaster mentioned, FIAT or Plymouth would be good as a mainstream volume brand..but FIAT is going to become a boutique electric brand in the US, and Plymouth is as dead as the rock it's named for. Reintroducing Peugeot or Citroen would take too long and cost too much. I honestly think Chrysler is the best "mainstream" candidate, based on the fact that their sole product is a minivan now that the 300 is going away. They really don't have an identity right now, and a relatively blank slate is just easier to work with.
Now I do NOT think a "Chrysler Hornet" is in the cards. Unfortunate, but I don't think they can get the price down far enough if they're still building them in Italy, they'd have to set up production here. But a FIAT 500X could be easily restyled and re-badged. And frankly, the wide Chrysler wing is a drop-in replacement for the FIAT "mustache" and logo. Style it to look like a mini Pacifica, and call it the Voyager, or the Cirrus, or the Neon. Or just call it the Chrysler 500, and rename the Pacifica to the Chrysler 1000.
Though come to think of it, I think I prefer a "Chrysler Hornet" of some sort, and the plug-in hybrid version would sit well next to the Pacifica Hybrid. Or maybe not the Hornet, maybe a 2WD Hybrid Compass derivative (we don't get the hybrid Compass here, so it's an opportunity). But then you've got three very similar vehicles sharing the same showroom/lot space. And that worked out SO well for GM....
The problem with the 500X was that it was in these bespoke FIAT dealers that they didn't have enough of. It and the Renegade are definitely aimed at different markets (off-road versus on-road, like the Hornet/Compass). If it was in CJDR dealers it might have sold more. Then again, it might not have, but by now yeah, it's an old design that would need updating to do anything with.I don't think the 500X is competitive. It's already been restyled and rebadged and called the Renegade, after all. I'd just as soon have Chrysler wait for the next generation and start fresh.
The 500x came out not too long before Fiat stopped the requirement for separate studios. At that point, the Fiat franchise could be combined with any CDJR location.The problem with the 500X was that it was in these bespoke FIAT dealers that they didn't have enough of. It and the Renegade are definitely aimed at different markets (off-road versus on-road, like the Hornet/Compass). If it was in CJDR dealers it might have sold more. Then again, it might not have, but by now yeah, it's an old design that would need updating to do anything with.
This is getting onto an old argument again, but the entire reason they stripped the trucks off of Dodge was to keep the valuable parts and toss off the leftovers after they'd run their course.Chrysler should be the volume brand with low price, high fuel efficiency trims up to near luxury trims.
Dodge will die as performance only as a result.
That is why Ford, Chevrolet and Toyota are all volume brands with pickups.
But re-combining Ram and Dodge is not going to happen.
Feuell is targeting Chrysler to be a "startup". To me this means a whole new image.....which is possible because it has no image currently except among those who remember the past.
The 500X sold in the dozens and the Renegade sold in the tens of thousands. They could have had the 500X in twenty different varieties and it would not have sold. Sales per dealer were minimal, too. The fact is that Fiat had one chance on entry, the 500, which was a great car in many ways, but not adapted to Americans until its second year at best, and not well made (or not well engineered, take your pick) - its reliability record had to be great to avoid the "Fix It Again" nickname and its reliability record rivaled Land Rover’s.The problem with the 500X was that it was in these bespoke FIAT dealers that they didn't have enough of. It and the Renegade are definitely aimed at different markets (off-road versus on-road, like the Hornet/Compass). If it was in CJDR dealers it might have sold more. Then again, it might not have, but by now yeah, it's an old design that would need updating to do anything with.
You say that with absolutely not one shred of evidence.This is getting onto an old argument again, but the entire reason they stripped the trucks off of Dodge was to keep the valuable parts and toss off the leftovers after they'd run their course.
Of course it sold in the dozens. They had dozens of dealers. And yeah, reliability was always an issue, people remembered FIAT too well. The Renegade isn't going anywhere yet, but I agree the Compass is a better size, which is why I think Chrysler should get a Compass variant. Particularly a hybrid one. But it absolutely can NOT compete with the Hornet in any way, or the Compass, or there will be cannibalization issues. Keep it 2WD hybrid, and if you want a rough roader, then Compass, and if you want more performance oriented (insert V8 fan groan here) then the Hornet. Each one gets a well defined segment.The 500X sold in the dozens and the Renegade sold in the tens of thousands. They could have had the 500X in twenty different varieties and it would not have sold. Sales per dealer were minimal, too. The fact is that Fiat had one chance on entry, the 500, which was a great car in many ways, but not adapted to Americans until its second year at best, and not well made (or not well engineered, take your pick) - its reliability record had to be great to avoid the "Fix It Again" nickname and its reliability record rivaled Land Rover’s.
The Renegade’s a failure in the US, too, compared with the Compass. It’s a success given that they already make them for Europe in the same plant, and therefore incremental sales work. As a standalone it would have been absolutely dismal.
I haven't checked lately, but arent' RAM Trucks still built using Dodge-brand VIN codes?Well, the official-sounding reasons given for separating the trucks from Dodge were pure BS, so I believe they were to obscure the true motive - to keep the profitable trucks if the Dodge brand failed or was sold. The official excuses given:
1) To separate the car vs. truck accounting - like this wasn't possible with Dodge/Dodge trucks.
2) To separate car vs. truck styling. Again, no need to split to do this.
3) To combine trucks worldwide under a "global" truck brand - alsi BS because Fiat Professional continued.
In fact, the very way they were able to maintain Fiat vs. Fiat Professional showed they had no need to separate Dodge trucks unless they planned for Dodge to fail or be sold. They wasted a lot of money on the split at the time they were claiming poverty as the reason for slow new model introduction.
I don't see this as nutty. I think that made sense. The goal was to have Ram in a different niche, and in different countries, e.g. Australia, where they keep trying.Well, the official-sounding reasons given for separating the trucks from Dodge were pure BS, so I believe they were to obscure the true motive - to keep the profitable trucks if the Dodge brand failed or was sold. The official excuses given:
1) To separate the car vs. truck accounting - like this wasn't possible with Dodge/Dodge trucks.
2) To separate car vs. truck styling. Again, no need to split to do this.
3) To combine trucks worldwide under a "global" truck brand - alsi BS because Fiat Professional continued.
In fact, the very way they were able to maintain Fiat vs. Fiat Professional showed they had no need to separate Dodge trucks unless they planned for Dodge to fail or be sold. They wasted a lot of money on the split at the time they were claiming poverty as the reason for slow new model introduction.
NoI haven't checked lately, but arent' RAM Trucks still built using Dodge-brand VIN codes?
I said before, and I'll repeat, sales by dealer were also lower than Renegade, which was hard to accomplish. 500X is nothing like the image Fiat tried to present - fun, exciting, Italian. 500X was none of those things except maybe Italian.Of course it sold in the dozens. They had dozens of dealers. And yeah, reliability was always an issue, people remembered FIAT too well.
No, the whole company is using a common VIN ID of C.I haven't checked lately, but arent' RAM Trucks still built using Dodge-brand VIN codes?
Ok. WHen they originally split off RAM, it was C/D/J. And there were questions as to why there was no R. Guess that solved itself.No, the whole company is using a common VIN ID of C.
Doesn't matter if it's a Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, or Ram. They all start out 1C (US made), 2C (Canada made), etc.
The second VIN slot is no longer C/D/J.
And all we heard was the Journey was the sub prime queen. I believe the Journey sold quite well.Dodge in the late 00's:
-Charger
-Challenger
-Avenger
-Caliber
-Viper (?)
-Grand Caravan
-Journey
-Ram 1500
-Ram 2500
-Ram 3500
-Sprinter
Dodge in early 20's:
-Charger
-Challenger
-Durango
Seems we HAD a volume leader and the various corporate owners decided to strip Dodge of its identity and create an entirely new one that now makes no sense in today's market.
Sold over 100,000 units a year in 2015 and 2016.And all we heard was the Journey was the sub prime queen. I believe the Journey sold quite well.
