[World14]

I'd straight up go elsewhere for cars in they merged Dodge and Ram back together.
The path Ram has taken, far more premium/luxury then Dodge could ever be, is the correct choice for a truck manufacturer that never had a shot at taking the sales crown from Ford (per single model line) or GM (for selling two on the same chassis).
Dodge is all about sport and the people, form SRT's and GLH's down to Caravan's and Neon's. Ram is a high riding, premium truck.
2 completely different goals. The previous D-series and early Rams were one thing.
The 4th gens changed that idea.

 

[tomaz]

I'd straight up go elsewhere for cars in they merged Dodge and Ram back together.
The path Ram has taken, far more premium/luxury then Dodge could ever be, is the correct choice for a truck manufacturer that never had a shot at taking the sales crown from Ford (per single model line) or GM (for selling two on the same chassis).
Dodge is all about sport and the people, form SRT's and GLH's down to Caravan's and Neon's. Ram is a high riding, premium truck.
2 completely different goals. The previous D-series and early Rams were one thing.
The 4th gens changed that idea.

Plus i wouldnt want the same Team working the Hornet to be alongside a 1500. Thats one benifit for splitting the 2 brands. Ram has its own CEO, its own design team, its own R&D.

 

[dakrt99]

Objectively, this is not a Dodge.

 

[valiant67]

Plus i wouldnt want the same Team working the Hornet to be alongside a 1500. Thats one benifit for splitting the 2 brands. Ram has its own CEO, its own design team, its own R&D.

And you would not have to split the brand to do that. Dodge truck development was separate from car development.

 

[theKING]

The problem is Dodge decided some time back to abandon anything other than the tire smoking market and purposefully forfeit several markets.
Hornet makes sense as a bit more performance oriented Journey replacement. Hornet doesn’t really make sense as a “brotherhood of muscle” member.
I guess they’ve now seen the light and Dodge is trying to venture back into markets it said it didn’t want to participate in a few years back.

Dodge didn't abandon any markets... they were ignored by Sergio and the F in FCA. American brands were milked of their profits to prop up Fiats Maseratis and Alfaromeos with no investment put back in. They continued with a model until it had to be killed due to all competition leaving it in the dust... the Daimler rape and pillage continued under FCA after some lipstick and a hot shower freshened the offerings..

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Dodge didn't abandon any markets... they were ignored by Sergio and the F in FCA. American brands were milked of their profits to prop up Fiats Maseratis and Alfaromeos with no investment put back in. They continued with a model until it had to be killed due to all competition leaving it in the dust... the Daimler rape and pillage continued under FCA after some lipstick and a hot shower freshened the offerings..

Dodge and Chrysler got no investment and to Sergio's chagrin, rebounded in sales after the 2009 collapse.

Instead of realizing that these brands still had value, Sergio then stripped them of product, refused to refresh product with minimal investment and then lying to everyone about the new product that was coming.

The greatest bait/switch was that Alfa needed Dodge volume. Money was diverted from Chrysler/Dodge into the Giorgio platform that did not spawn a single Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep. This further weakened the brands and the resulting Alfa product was such a cheaply engineered garbage of low quality that it is another bleeding brand in the lineup.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Plus i wouldnt want the same Team working the Hornet to be alongside a 1500. Thats one benifit for splitting the 2 brands. Ram has its own CEO, its own design team, its own R&D.

Car engineering and Jeep/Truck engineering were always separate before FCA.

Now we have poorly engineered cars and poorly engineered Jeeps.

 

[Adventurer55]

What I fear most at the present time, is a further abandoning of product lines and nothing to replace them as fast as their plan is talked about. Why? Softening sales. They will hoard cash and delay upgrades and new products to keep their stock price and investors happy. Falling further behind. Wait for it.

 

[aldo90731]

I just don’t get the styling of this Dodge.

It’s like one of those Bangle BMWs: I can stare right at it but I’m still not sure what I’m looking at.

 

[vBD]

What I fear most at the present time, is a further abandoning of product lines and nothing to replace them as fast as their plan is talked about. Why? Softening sales. They will hoard cash and delay upgrades and new products to keep their stock price and investors happy. Falling further behind. Wait for it.

Has not the Hornet just been introduced(also Alfa Tonale in europe and secondarily in the usa: consolidated scale economies via 'platform' and powertrain sharing)? And Compass upgraded. Soon Ram 1200/Dakota, also on susw4x4 'platform' I.e., they have enough lower priced models availbl through this upcoming recession (?).... with scale economies and not made-in-usa to still have positive(?) if lower margins. Remember us$ is and will likely remain strong(er): this added many billions to the stellantis bottom line in 2022...which is euros!;-) And since Alfa, JEEP and Especially Maserati have already largely (enough?) r&d-ed stla large ie giorgio/ev(including the 800v EV stuff)....AT LEAST the development cost of bringing the new stla large esp electrified new dodges and chrysler (s) is low incrementally over the next few years....billions less. Also ex FCA now has an in house finance unit: and so can for the first time 'extract' profits like gm and ford who'v for years dressed up their car business earnings via their finance units(20%+ of net earnings) So i think stellantis has plenty of ammo to not just weather the recession/stagflation but outgun gm and ford et al say maybe on heavy incentives andOR launch new models (esp electrified ones including jeep recon and chrysler airflow) andOR maintain their champion margins and very high profitabilty in n america. AND Even better: they can let net n america margins drop to 12% from the current industry best 16%+.....and launch an incentives war against esp gm and ford. They've been managing hyper frugally for years precisely for merger (done) AND n america recession. A breakevenpoint as low as 30 or 40% of sales AND huge accumulated cash means they can have a good recession (?) Relative to gm and esp ford. PS: Still to be proven though (tavares has given 10 years....) That new dodges and chryslers can be at all profitable esp given electrification costs and risks (same is the doubt facing DS LANCIA andor ALFA ROMEO) ie job not yet fully done since 2008 crisis birth of exfca. Endgame ie turn of the business and economic cycle is here!

 

[GasAxe]

Car engineering and Jeep/Truck engineering were always separate before FCA.

To further Erik’s point, how do people explain Ford, Chevy, and Toyota’s success is branding multiple types of vehicles under a single brand name if it’s impossible to keep manufacturing teams separate??

My biggest gripe with Dodge and Ram split is the obvious waste of brand equity and likely some measurement of resources by dividing the two.

 

[GasAxe]

Back on topic, I haven’t seen a Hornet yet. I think with so few Alfa’s being sold, most people with simply think the Hornet is a different, somewhat oddly styled Dodge, no more no less.

 

[npaladin2000]

Back on topic, I haven’t seen a Hornet yet. I think with so few Alfa’s being sold, most people with simply think the Hornet is a different, somewhat oddly styled Dodge, no more no less.

That might be an advantage, Alfa has some cachet in the US but there's also the Italian reputation for (lack of) reliability.

Personally I'm rethinking whether the R/T is right for me given the information so far. Especially since I don't have a 100 mile a day commute anymore. But I hear the R/T would still have a tax advantage if leased...which is interesting since that might overload the used market pretty quick.

 

[valiant67]

That might be an advantage, Alfa has some cachet in the US but there's also the Italian reputation for (lack of) reliability.

Personally I'm rethinking whether the R/T is right for me given the information so far. Especially since I don't have a 100 mile a day commute anymore. But I hear the R/T would still have a tax advantage if leased...which is interesting since that might overload the used market pretty quick.

The EV credit should apply for a lease or purchase. Last year 2022 you had to wait until taxes were filed to get it on a purchase where as with a lease it lowered payments. I thought there was supposed to be a change in that for 2023 for purchase.

 

[npaladin2000]

The EV credit should apply for a lease or purchase. Last year 2022 you had to wait until taxes were filed to get it on a purchase where as with a lease it lowered payments. I thought there was supposed to be a change in that for 2023 for purchase.

It should, yes. But it doesn't because the rules for the EV credit changed this year (at least for purchases). The whole thing with it having to be assembled in the US and the batteries having to have certain mineral content sources, etc etc. That's another thing giving me pause, might want to give them some time to un-do the stupid changes to the EV credit system.

 

[valiant67]

It should, yes. But it doesn't because the rules for the EV credit changed this year (at least for purchases). The whole thing with it having to be assembled in the US and the batteries having to have certain mineral content sources, etc etc. That's another thing giving me pause, might want to give them some time to un-do the stupid changes to the EV credit system.

The same rules on battery sourcing and assembly apply to both purchase and lease.
Any real tax advantages to leasing are going to when a car is used for business. Or if a vehicle qualifies for the EV credit and the buyer has no tax liability to offset.

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

Another voice heard from on the Hornet:

 

[aldo90731]

I thought the caption above read “FIRST DODGE WITH A PUG!”

Meet Hornet.

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

I thought the caption above read “FIRST DODGE WITH A PUG!”

Meet Hornet.
View attachment 93694

Don't tell me. Let me guess
You're middle aged, and have the accompanying eyes of a middle aged person, yes?

I would almost bet money on it. I should know...being somewhere between 40 and DEATH!

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Plus i wouldnt want the same Team working the Hornet to be alongside a 1500. Thats one benifit for splitting the 2 brands. Ram has its own CEO, its own design team, its own R&D.

Yeah. It's definitely hindering Ford, GM, and Toyota.

And I mean, let's just ignore the fact that the Wagoneer is built completely on the 1500 architecture.

I still recall the arguments that splitting RAM off from Dodge "freed" the Dodge designers from the Ram's Head logo and the crosshair grille... And looking at many of the Ram models today we see... no Ram's head and no crosshair grilles.