[tomaz]

minus the suspension, would this be a SRT4 replacement since it really replaces the Da...Neon (Compact) and has over 280hp? i mean its no Civic Type R but then again there arent many Compact Performance crossovers.

 

[Tomguy]

I just refuse to buy something with a trunk.

I would have a Magnum Scat Pack Widebody if they still made them. But since they don't, there was one choice. The WRX STI was as expensive as my Charger, smaller, less power, and got the same mpg on premium.

 

[vBD]

Jeep Grand Cherokee is not on Giorgio. Please stop spreading this false information. The chief engineer confirmed there is zero commonality and WL is all-new.

Giorgio is not the basis for STLA Large either. It is a clean sheet.

The heavy modifications to Giorgio to accommmodate the Folgore are such that the costs could only be buried in expensive Maseratis. That is why no other vehicle will come from Giogio (confirmed by engineers). The platform was not designed for electrification (confirmed by engineers).

Your knowledge is not correct. Please do not spread such things here as Allpar is a place of FACT.

Lastly, Prabhjot, all brands will consolidate on the 4 platforms, globally, something FCA was never capable of doing from an engineering perspective.

Well tavares at last earnings call said that they have slashed new model development costs through the merger....for usa not just europe ie., the new maseratis ARE the architecture family from which stla large esp ev . in previous earnings calls manley and marchionne too made explicit that n american rwd models esp ev would b based on giorgio evolutions, and why not?.....the lx lh platform and evolutions (including maserati ghibli qp levante) did need replacing in any case esp for ev s. Psa and fiat brands have no need for stla large and conversely susw andor stla medium models areof no use for usa manufacture andor brands other than compass etc. Stellantis chief engineering officer remains harald wester....under whom giorgio and maserati innovation centre have developed and will evolve engineering wise stla large. Gilles remains in charge of dodge and jeep and maserati styling, kuniskis of dodge. Tavares will focus only on cost cuts?! He was already boasting of cost takenout of usa plants....;-)

 

[serpens]

Realistically, as we've covered before, there are probably some lessons learned from Giorgio and its continued development that will apply to STLA Large. However, calling STLA Large an evolution of Giorgio is probably a stretch. STLA Large is going to using a skateboard design for the battery placement/chassis structure, something that's entirely different than the Giorgio Folgore models.

 

[vBD]

So...they are related. Or not. Does not matter in the end customer in the end. What mattes is: are the development costs affordable by company? Does the company have the engineering ability to develop cutting edge rwd light weighted well packaged etc...at affordable cost esp for ev versions? Does the company have brands and nameplates and markets enough to amortize these and other costs over time (say 6 to 10 years)? Given ALL the other risks and costs? Personally i'd really have had the merger/hostile takeover with/of gm happen...as did marchionne. Stla large woulda been based for gm ultium etc....huge scale efficiency of amortization etc esp of electrification costs. Those costs are only going up in n america since a recession may be setting too.

 

[valiant67]

So...they are related. Or not. Does not matter in the end customer in the end. What mattes is: are the development costs affordable by company? Does the company have the engineering ability to develop cutting edge rwd light weighted well packaged etc...at affordable cost esp for ev versions? Does the company have brands and nameplates and markets enough to amortize these and other costs over time (say 6 to 10 years)? Given ALL the other risks and costs? Personally i'd really have had the merger/hostile takeover with/of gm happen...as did marchionne. Stla large woulda been based for gm ultium etc....huge scale efficiency of amortization etc esp of electrification costs. Those costs are only going up in n america since a recession may be setting too.

Please get over the GM merger idea. That would have been the end of multiple brands and most FCA vehicles.
Grand Cherokee would have been converted to a rebadged Tahoe eventually. The three truck lines would be the same eventually, and one or two would soon be unnecessary (Chevy, Ram, GMC). The Pacifica is the one bright spot as it might have ended up on a better platform than the mess it is on now. Gladiator would never have happened. Wrangler might stay as is, or get pushed to an adaptation of the Colorado/Canyon suspension.
Sorry your hero didn’t reach his dream goal, but personally I am grateful it never happened.

 

[Adventurer55]

Are people still gushing over the GM hostile takeover crap? Sergio couldn't manage FCA correctly. Why in the world would ANYONE think that mess would've worked? He may have ending up taking both down to satisfy his grandiose ego.

 

[npaladin2000]

Oh no, I can just see FCA as a disciple of Generic Motors....it would be the cloud cars all over again.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Well tavares at last earnings call said that they have slashed new model development costs through the merger....for usa not just europe ie., the new maseratis ARE the architecture family from which stla large esp ev . in previous earnings calls manley and marchionne too made explicit that n american rwd models esp ev would b based on giorgio evolutions, and why not?.....the lx lh platform and evolutions (including maserati ghibli qp levante) did need replacing in any case esp for ev s. Psa and fiat brands have no need for stla large and conversely susw andor stla medium models areof no use for usa manufacture andor brands other than compass etc. Stellantis chief engineering officer remains harald wester....under whom giorgio and maserati innovation centre have developed and will evolve engineering wise stla large. Gilles remains in charge of dodge and jeep and maserati styling, kuniskis of dodge. Tavares will focus only on cost cuts?! He was already boasting of cost takenout of usa plants....;-)

Enough of your nonsense! Stop lying.

Imparato himself said “We are working on the Large platform of Stellantis and we will no longer use the Giorgio,”

Alfa Romeo To Ditch Rear-Drive Giorgio Platform For New EV Underpinnings From Stellantis | Carscoops

 

[Adventurer55]

Giorgio is about as profitable as this was.

FORD'S $6 BILLION BABY Developing this ''world car'' for Europe and the U.S. cost plenty. The American version will be lucky to break even. - June 28, 1993

 

[npaladin2000]

Giorgio is about as profitable as this was.

FORD'S $6 BILLION BABY Developing this ''world car'' for Europe and the U.S. cost plenty. The American version will be lucky to break even. - June 28, 1993

Yeah but it has a much cooler name.

 

[World14]

Giorgio is about as profitable as this was.

FORD'S $6 BILLION BABY Developing this ''world car'' for Europe and the U.S. cost plenty. The American version will be lucky to break even. - June 28, 1993

I can't wrap my head around that.... there's no way Ford made anywhere close to even 15% of that investment back from that chassis.... it's derived from a Mazda chassis, yet it still cost 6 billion dollars?
The only way that chassis made money was from the Jaguar X-Type, and at 350,000 units ever produced for that car, that had to be only like 10% at best.
Giorgio may not have made back its investment, but I bet ya if you compared the 2, Alfa made back more from Giorgio then Ford did the CDW27 chassis.

 

[mentalicca]

From everything I have seen the issue with Giorgio was not that was a bad platform, nor that it couldn't have been used elsewhere. It was that during development the wrong leadership was in place.

Sergio was good at fixing things he perceived as problems. But a "firefighter" leadership model is not great for product development lifecycles.

It is something I see a lot in my industry. The top level gets too distracted by the new #1 priority. Then it becomes a vicious cycle. So we constantly band-aid things instead fix the real underlying problem.

That is not to say there is not merit to having to do that from time to time, but it is not something sustainable long term.

A less whimsical leader, potentially like what we are seeing in Tavares, would have probably allowed Giorgio to flourish as a platform.

 

[mentalicca]

Your post still seems to point to what I am saying, the previous management style was not conducive to getting the product out in the right way, but current management is.

Different times and environments call for different leadership.

 

[valiant67]

We were sold a lie about all the new products that would come from Giorgio for Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep. It could do all things from a rugged off road Jeep to a V8 muscle Dodge. It was simply an excuse to use American brand resources for an Alfa Romeo back when there were limitations on certain money moves.
Now rather than admit they were fooled, the excuse makers are saying anything with 4 wheels and large is now “derived” from Giorgio.

 

[npaladin2000]

Well, I want my Alfa based Dodge. Even if the Alfa my Alfa based Dodge comes from is a Jeep based Alfa.

Driving impressions embargo ends tomorrow, it'll be nice to finally hear how it drives.

 

[Dave Z]

Jim Morrison said WL is not Giorgio and that this architecture essentially started from a clean sheet.
I'm more likely to believe the head of Jeep, especially when it's Jim Morrison, a man with clear Jeep credentials, than I am to believe you.
What's more, STLA announcements since then have indicated that STLA Large is not Giulia. Giulia is trapped within Alfa Romeo. It was a dead end.
I wish Giulia had been what it was supposed to be, but even more I wish they hadn't cancelled the new L-series cars to create it. Those cars were to adopt the changes made by Maserati to the L platform and would have been terrific drivers.

 

[Adventurer55]

Jim Morrison said WL is not Giorgio and that this architecture essentially started from a clean sheet.
I'm more likely to believe the head of Jeep, especially when it's Jim Morrison, a man with clear Jeep credentials, than I am to believe you.
What's more, STLA announcements since then have indicated that STLA Large is not Giulia. Giulia is trapped within Alfa Romeo. It was a dead end.
I wish Giulia had been what it was supposed to be, but even more I wish they hadn't cancelled the new L-series cars to create it. Those cars were to adopt the changes made by Maserati to the L platform and would have been terrific drivers.

Here is my WL with part of its clothes removed. Feel free to observe part of its guts and see if Giorgio is lurking somewhere. I too will go with the Jeep guy calling this a clean sheet.

 

[movaldes]

Nobody? did you even ask all of us? Because I am very interested in a turbo 6 and electrification.
My house hold has 3 cars in circulation. Only one of them is a 392. And if I had the option to change my “fleet” to all hemi, I would NOT.
I would venture that most people NEED a more practical car. Whether or not they own a v8 as well.

The hemi is dodges biggest problem. It is the life raft they’re clinging to. Everything else was thrown overboard and now what? While everyone else moves on, they dig in, when every one else folds, they double down. I don’t see how that could be a good strategy.

I agree. I loved my Durango HC but the power delivery of the Hurricane in the Grand Wagoneer is so smooth and refined.
Being a big fan of all Mopars (turbo 80s/90s, Hemi 60s/70s) I just want to see them remain competitive. Though hopefully with ICE. Not a fan of full EVs at this point.