Allpar Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
What I mean by that statement is that the Sebring went from a loser which was roundly panned by the media, even being called the "Worst Car in the World" by Jeremy Clarkson, to now being a huge sales success over the past 2 years, and is now a top 20 selling vehicle.

I cannot remember ever seeing a Chrysler vehicle have such a dramatic turn-around in sales by a mid-cycle refresh before.

So, does the 200 belong in the same discussion as the LH's, the K cars and the like?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,262 Posts
I vote yes.

With a relatively small investment, and a fairly smart PR move ( Sebring - 200 name change ) they have turned around arguably the biggest "dog" in the industry, to potentially one of the top performers.

I think the next 200 will solidify those gains, and knock it out of the park. Or it has the potential to. Lets see if they get the whole launch thingy figured out before then :)
 

·
Vaguely badass...
Joined
·
43,887 Posts
Interesting to note, as I was looking at overall sales figures, the Sebring was already on an upswing before the 200 arrived.

It's also worth nothing that, when seen on a line chart, the 200 and Avenger refreshes took off like a shot. I'll post it up later tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,224 Posts
Incentives are more important than anything else?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,050 Posts
I had a service one, I vote it as an excellent chick car, I being a male will never buy one
 

·
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
Joined
·
8,808 Posts
I test-drove one when I was last shopping in earnest. It was good; the things that bothered me were mostly things common to all new cars now, with the A-pillar size and hunting for gear when flooring it being negatives. The gear-hunting might have reduced with either the car learning my driving style or with any software updates from Chrysler, but obviously the A-pillar size would always be that way.

It's a consideration for us for once my wife's car needs replacement, assuming that it's still available new or in excellent used condition. She's rented both the Avenger and the 200 with four cylinder, the four-banger was adequate but she'd definitely be happier with the 3.6.

I think that it's a good looking car. It took awhile for me to truly come around, as I really, really didn't like the look of that Sebring predecessor, but the further we get from the Sebring and the more 200s I see on the road the easier that's becoming.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
TWX said:
I test-drove one when I was last shopping in earnest. It was good; the things that bothered me were mostly things common to all new cars now, with the A-pillar size and hunting for gear when flooring it being negatives. The gear-hunting might have reduced with either the car learning my driving style or with any software updates from Chrysler, but obviously the A-pillar size would always be that way.

It's a consideration for us for once my wife's car needs replacement, assuming that it's still available new or in excellent used condition. She's rented both the Avenger and the 200 with four cylinder, the four-banger was adequate but she'd definitely be happier with the 3.6.

I think that it's a good looking car. It took awhile for me to truly come around, as I really, really didn't like the look of that Sebring predecessor, but the further we get from the Sebring and the more 200s I see on the road the easier that's becoming.
The 62TE isn't exactly the smoothest transmission, 1-2-3 are quite close but 5-6 are quite far apart so sometimes you get annoying back and forth when going up inclines at higher speeds.

The 4-Cyl surprisingly is adequate (I have the 3.6L) when I had it as a rental. Make sure you get it with the 6-Speed as the additional ratios will help with acceleration. The only real negative I find with the 4-Cyl is that it's buzzy as heck, that's a huge part of why I opted for the Pentastar.

Other than that been really happy with the car, just wish it had all the gadgets that the Dart has ;) I think they should have at least put in a Backup camera or Sensors though.
 

·
Vaguely badass...
Joined
·
43,887 Posts
A lot of the electronic gizmos depend on the proper back-end support - support that exists in the Dart, but not in the JS.

Anyway, as promised - here's the sales of the "J-Cars" from 1997 through 2012. Notice going from 2009 to 2010, the rebound had already started, but the 2011-2012 climb was rocket-like.


(Note also that the numbers for Sebring include the Sebring Convertible, Coupe, Sedan, and the '97-'00 Cirrus. The Stratus numbers include the Avenger Coupe and Stratus Coupe and Sedan. The 200 numbers include both sedan and convertible.)

The affordability and financial incentives are certainly one reason. The Eminem commercial is another - for the 200 - Avenger wasn't featured in that. And yes, fleet sales. But overall the Avenger and 200 are pretty decent values for what you DO get for that money.
 

·
Well-Known Jeeper
Joined
·
2,932 Posts
The 200 may not be an "all time great success" relative to LH or the first K cars, but it probably does represent the biggest turnaround in Chrysler's history for a single model. With a new powertrain and some relatively minor cosmetic changes, the 200 has made the public largely forget Sebring ever existed.

I saw a black 200 tonight around dusk, probably a Limited model as it had the LED's in the headlights and larger wheels, and couldn't help thinking how sharp it looked. By contrast I don't get excited when I see an Avenger. Back in '07, it was by far the better looking of the two, but today it reminds me of those ribbed-cladding Pontiac Grand Am's from the 90's crossbred with a 1988 Dodge Lancer. I don't find the interior of either Avenger or 200 very inviting. But the 200 gets away with that by being very attractive on the outside. Plus, the 3.6 models are just plain fun to drive.
 

·
Plymouth Makes It
Joined
·
8,107 Posts
Have a 200 loaner while our 300 is in for repair. For such a large 4 banger the 2,4 is smooth and silent while cursing, makes itself known when accelerating, Good room inside, no feeling of being cramped on a long journey. Trunk makes you wonder how something that large can fit in a short rear. Dash is simple and pleasant, no distractions. Ride is a bit stiff for my taste probably smooth out when shocks are broken in, Wish there were an optional power passenger seat in Chrysler vehicles. when you get old you will know.

All in all it would be a great commuter vehicle comfortable, easy to control, Good for family trips to the beach with the generous trunk space and won;t set you back much.

Avenger V6 would be my choice of the two I gotta be in a rapid Dodge, that's just me. And that's why there is a need for a Dodge and a Chrysler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,747 Posts
tkyoshi said:
The 62TE isn't exactly the smoothest transmission, 1-2-3 are quite close but 5-6 are quite far apart so sometimes you get annoying back and forth when going up inclines at higher speeds.

The 4-Cyl surprisingly is adequate (I have the 3.6L) when I had it as a rental. Make sure you get it with the 6-Speed as the additional ratios will help with acceleration. The only real negative I find with the 4-Cyl is that it's buzzy as heck, that's a huge part of why I opted for the Pentastar.

Other than that been really happy with the car, just wish it had all the gadgets that the Dart has ;) I think they should have at least put in a Backup camera or Sensors though.
This is the only reason I haven't bought one. 100% truth.

I do like the 200, especially the 200S in white or tungsten

Stratuscaster said:
A lot of the electronic gizmos depend on the proper back-end support - support that exists in the Dart, but not in the JS.

Anyway, as promised - here's the sales of the "J-Cars" from 1997 through 2012. Notice going from 2009 to 2010, the rebound had already started, but the 2011-2012 climb was rocket-like.


(Note also that the numbers for Sebring include the Sebring Convertible, Coupe, Sedan, and the '97-'00 Cirrus. The Stratus numbers include the Avenger Coupe and Stratus Coupe and Sedan. The 200 numbers include both sedan and convertible.)

The affordability and financial incentives are certainly one reason. The Eminem commercial is another - for the 200 - Avenger wasn't featured in that. And yes, fleet sales. But overall the Avenger and 200 are pretty decent values for what you DO get for that money.
Thanks!

I think that some of that 2009-2010 upswing has to do with the bankruptcy recovery? They were going to kill the midsizers and sell the factory IIRC?


FreeLantz said:
The 200 may not be an "all time great success" relative to LH or the first K cars, but it probably does represent the biggest turnaround in Chrysler's history for a single model. With a new powertrain and some relatively minor cosmetic changes, the 200 has made the public largely forget Sebring ever existed.

I saw a black 200 tonight around dusk, probably a Limited model as it had the LED's in the headlights and larger wheels, and couldn't help thinking how sharp it looked. By contrast I don't get excited when I see an Avenger. Back in '07, it was by far the better looking of the two, but today it reminds me of those ribbed-cladding Pontiac Grand Am's from the 90's crossbred with a 1988 Dodge Lancer. I don't find the interior of either Avenger or 200 very inviting. But the 200 gets away with that by being very attractive on the outside. Plus, the 3.6 models are just plain fun to drive.
I completely agree, the 200 refresh was worth every penny, like the Journey and Grand Caravan refresh IMO. The Journey and GC had horrible interiors prior to the refresh.


jerseyjoe said:
Have a 200 loaner while our 300 is in for repair. For such a large 4 banger the 2,4 is smooth and silent while cursing, makes itself known when accelerating, Good room inside, no feeling of being cramped on a long journey. Trunk makes you wonder how something that large can fit in a short rear. Dash is simple and pleasant, no distractions. Ride is a bit stiff for my taste probably smooth out when shocks are broken in, Wish there were an optional power passenger seat in Chrysler vehicles. when you get old you will know.

All in all it would be a great commuter vehicle comfortable, easy to control, Good for family trips to the beach with the generous trunk space and won;t set you back much.

Avenger V6 would be my choice of the two I gotta be in a rapid Dodge, that's just me. And that's why there is a need for a Dodge and a Chrysler.
I'd love a current Avenger with racetrack tail lights, and all the new "tech toys"

Hoping the rumored D-RWD sedan is great :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,224 Posts
Avenger/200 refresh was one path explored under Cerberus and the Project-D. The other was sharing a platform with Fiat.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
35,258 Posts
I have my doubts that "Project D" was serious, though I'm sure the people involved thought it was. Cerberus did a lot of window candy, pretending to create a long term company while trying hard to sell it. They didn't need to get any money for Chrysler, as long as they had Chrysler Financial. In the end, they still made money. Had I been involved in the deal, I don't think I'd have been quite as nice about it, but Cerberus did have leverage: they did not have to go along with the recovery plan, and could have just gone chapter-7.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,224 Posts
Dr. Z said:
I have my doubts that "Project D" was serious, though I'm sure the people involved thought it was. Cerberus did a lot of window candy, pretending to create a long term company while trying hard to sell it. They didn't need to get any money for Chrysler, as long as they had Chrysler Financial. In the end, they still made money. Had I been involved in the deal, I don't think I'd have been quite as nice about it, but Cerberus did have leverage: they did not have to go along with the recovery plan, and could have just gone chapter-7.
The engineering centers in India and other countries were Cerberus creations.

Until the economy tanked, Cerberus was in for the long haul. Their shareholders (investors) were asked to put up more money for Chrysler to continue. But were turned down.

So, the fallback plan was to divest and try and recoup their original investment.

project D was serious as the D segment is the most lucrative.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,569 Posts
My heart sank w/the intro of the Sebring. But, I figured the best was being done w/what the engineers had to work with..2008 I got to drive one w/the 2.7 V6..and it was a nice car, if you looked past the cheap interior!

At one point, whilst trying to reason why..I had a realization about the Sebring..; this platform was about the convertible, not the sedan. The conv. is pretty sexy!

Now, when I see the refreshed model, I think back to the potential this car had from the very start..and sometimes, I glance at one, and think "damn, that is as good looking a car as anything on the road today!"
 

·
Vaguely badass...
Joined
·
43,887 Posts
UN4GTBL said:
I think that some of that 2009-2010 upswing has to do with the bankruptcy recovery? They were going to kill the midsizers and sell the factory IIRC?
Some of it is, yes.

Look at the numbers from 97-2001 - some of the biggest sales numbers for the company were reached in that timeframe, and that was with Sebring Coupe, Sebring Vert, Cirrus/Sebring sedan, Stratus sedan, Avenger Coupe, and Stratus Coupe - 6 cars. In 2012 the 200 and Avenger really took off and eclipsed those numbers - with 3 cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
jerseyjoe said:
Have a 200 loaner while our 300 is in for repair. For such a large 4 banger the 2,4 is smooth and silent while cursing, makes itself known when accelerating,
So, if you're not cursing, is it not smooth and silent? I don't want to curse at my car just to make it quiet.
 

·
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
Joined
·
8,808 Posts
Thing is, even if the platform was meant to make a really nice convertible, it had to make a really nice sedan too, or else the whole thing was destined to not succeed.

I think that had any of the things revised on the car been the only single major issue with its cosmetics then it wouldn't have been a big deal, but the combination of odd headlights, odd tail lights with mismatched lights on the trunk lid, and the weird mismatched hard edges and body lines that didn't complement each other all did significant damage before ever seeing the interior.

If you look at what they did, they made the headlights smaller, the front grille a little smaller revised the front bumper cover, they deleted the grooves from the hood, deleted the door bump strips, and revised the taillights and trunk lid along with the rear bumper cover. The actual monocoque body shell, doors look identical, and the fenders themselves may also be identical. Everything changed is bolted on. I assume that tooling modifications in the factory were very minimal yet achieved this much.

Rymanrph said:
So, if you're not cursing, is it not smooth and silent? I don't want to curse at my car just to make it quiet.
I think that's dependent on traffic conditions...

I can make paint bubble when traffic is really bad...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
381 Posts
Of note: The fleet percentage for the 200 is still over 50%. (Of even greater note: The late Sebring was even higher). The next 200 needs to break that trend. Great sales are....well, great. But they need to get into real people's hands, not the fleet manager's. What's the residuals on a 200 these days?




Source



(Of even more note: Because of the higher numeric sales of the Malibu, Fusion, Altima and Camry and their fleet percentage, more of their vehicles end up in rental lots then the 200). Flipside: they have greater retail sales to offset them without massively screwing up their residuals.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top