Allpar Forums banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,445 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
JD Power just published the rankings of the 2020 VDS (Vehicle Dependability Study), which measures PP100 (problems per 100 units sold) after 3 years of ownership: Genesis, Buick tops in vehicle dependability, J.D. Power survey says

Highlights:
  • Genesis, Lexus and Buick remain in the top 3
  • Acura and Honda continue to struggle, placing well below industry average
  • Notice how Hyundai and Kia, which top IQS (after 90 days from purchase) slide several rankings after three years of ownership
  • Mercedes, Infiniti and Subaru don’t look very impressive
  • Ram continues to outperform CDJF, who continue to cluster towards the bottom of the rankings. But at least they are not ALL at the bottom, as in recent years
  • Land Rover is now dead last; Jaguar 3rd from the bottom
  • Tesla opted out. Musk likely concluded that participating provided greater downside risk than positive benefit


 

·
Jeepaholic
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
I know there are reasons that can contribute to it, but it still amazes me that an individual brand can be separated so far from the other brands under it’s parent company’s corporate umbrella. GMC is towards the bottom, away from the rest of the GM brands...the same brands it shares parts, and dealerships with. What makes them so different from the other GM brands?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,110 Posts
I know there are reasons that can contribute to it, but it still amazes me that an individual brand can be separated so far from the other brands under it’s parent company’s corporate umbrella. GMC is towards the bottom, away from the rest of the GM brands...the same brands it shares parts, and dealerships with. What makes them so different from the other GM brands?
If I had to guess, I'd say it's because GM's trucks and larger SUVs contribute negatively to their quality rankings. Specifically, the Tahoe, Suburban, Equinox, Silverado, and Colorado all have direct GMC equivalents that share many parts, while remaining GMC model, Acadia, is on the same architecture as the Blazer and Traverse, though in a different size.

Instead, I'm guessing the vehicles propping up Cadillac, Chevrolet, and Buick are the cars--or carlike models--that share the same architecture: Trax/Encore, Camaro/ATS/CTS (based on Alpha), Malibu/Regal/XT4 (based on E2XX), and Impala/LaCrosse/XTS (based on Epsilon II). Buick, the brand with the most carlike models, is the highest ranked GM brand, followed by Chevrolet, then Cadillac, then GMC. Seems that as the brands have a higher ratio of trucklike to carlike models, their dependability declines.

Will be interesting to see how the results change once the Malibu, Camaro, and Corvette are Chevrolet's only cars. Buick will also only have crossovers by that point.

Just a guess, @aldo90731 probably has much better answer.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
40,238 Posts
A substantial amount of FCA problems are because FCA products don't act or act less like a cell phone.
And how is that unique to FCA?
In my experiences with FCA, Ford, and GM products within my family FCA USA is at least as good, if not better, at phone integration than Ford or GM. I have no experience on Japanese, European, or Korean cars to compare.
Android Auto and Apple CarPlay have commonized much of experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,223 Posts
Perception has a lot to do with ratings.

Once, marketing stripped off Chrysler badging on a few of our products and replaced it with Toyota badges. The cars made a much better showing at clinics.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,445 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Perception has a lot to do with ratings.

Once, marketing stripped off Chrysler badging on a few of our products and replaced it with Toyota badges. The cars made a much better showing at clinics.
While that is true in static car clinic, replacing badges is not going to chance customers’ experience after three years of ownership.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,445 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
And how is that unique to FCA?
In my experiences with FCA, Ford, and GM products within my family FCA USA is at least as good, if not better, at phone integration than Ford or GM. I have no experience on Japanese, European, or Korean cars to compare.
Android Auto and Apple CarPlay have commonized much of experience.
The integration of my Samsung phone with the Mazda system in my Fiat Spider is simply atrocious. I can’t stream music any more. It’s one error message after another. It’s gotten progressively worse in the 11 months I’ve owned the car. And there’s little online help.

My JL came with Android Auto but I found it annoying. It insisted on taking over functions I am used to handling on the UConnect screen or on my phone. So I just removed it. The UConnect system on the Jeep works like a charm, though, and hooks up to my phone effortlessly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,223 Posts
While that is true in static car clinic, replacing badges is not going to chance customers’ experience after three years of ownership.
Correct. I didn't say it would.

On that subject, though, we did find that Toyota owners are more "forgiving" of issues than FCA owners. And they don't tell everyone that ever knew on Facebook! I knew Toyota folks arguing about that brake pedal issue back in 2010 as a "one off", when clearly there were many vehicles exhibiting the same problem. Maybe the Toyota Kool-Aid is better than the FCA brand? lol...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,181 Posts
Wonder if the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer sharing components with the Ram will have a positive impact on Jeep's ranking?
To be honest, I wanna buy a Wagoneer or Grand Wagoneer when they come out, but I’m really worried about the initial production quality
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,445 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If I had to guess, I'd say it's because GM's trucks and larger SUVs contribute negatively to their quality rankings. Specifically, the Tahoe, Suburban, Equinox, Silverado, and Colorado all have direct GMC equivalents that share many parts, while remaining GMC model, Acadia, is on the same architecture as the Blazer and Traverse, though in a different size.

Instead, I'm guessing the vehicles propping up Cadillac, Chevrolet, and Buick are the cars--or carlike models--that share the same architecture: Trax/Encore, Camaro/ATS/CTS (based on Alpha), Malibu/Regal/XT4 (based on E2XX), and Impala/LaCrosse/XTS (based on Epsilon II). Buick, the brand with the most carlike models, is the highest ranked GM brand, followed by Chevrolet, then Cadillac, then GMC. Seems that as the brands have a higher ratio of trucklike to carlike models, their dependability declines.

Will be interesting to see how the results change once the Malibu, Camaro, and Corvette are Chevrolet's only cars. Buick will also only have crossovers by that point.

Just a guess, @aldo90731 probably has much better answer.
Correct. Model mix impacts these scores. If, say, Sierra/Silverado just launched and happens to be giving problems in that particular model year, because full-size pickups represent a greater proportion of GMC sales than of Chevrolet sales, GMC scores will take a bigger hit.

With regards to Ram: two-thirds or more of Ram’s sales are full-size pickups. The catch is, a proportion (only known to FCA) of those sales are still DS models. My guess is because DS has been in production for such a long time, it reports fewer PP100 than DT. As sales of DS shrink and sales of DT grow, it could potentially affect PP100 negatively. Whether any of this can help Jeep remains to be seen.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,445 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Correct. I didn't say it would.

On that subject, though, we did find that Toyota owners are more "forgiving" of issues than FCA owners. And they don't tell everyone that ever knew on Facebook! I knew Toyota folks arguing about that brake pedal issue back in 2010 as a "one off", when clearly there were many vehicles exhibiting the same problem. Maybe the Toyota Kool-Aid is better than the FCA brand? lol...
That is true. But the actual reason is no mystery: it is because Toyota —and Honda and Subaru— retain a greater proportion of their existing customers.

Loyal customers are known to be both more (1) forgiving and (2) profitable than new conquests. This also helps explain why Toyota —and Honda— can sell cars profitably whereas FCA, Ford, GM and Nissan cannot.

So, for Acura and Honda to rank as low as they do, those owners’ experience must truly be near miserable.

I can’t speak for GM or Ford, but as a FCA customer and a Nissan supplier, I will say that they do not really understand the value of retaining customers.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
10,445 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So, Toyota buyers are more gullible and have lower IQs ?? :D
Don’t know about lower IQs. Supposedly, Toyota attracts a more educated buyer. Then again, so did Saab...

My hypothesis is that Toyota and Honda attract a certain mindset, though: someone more concerned about safety and security; less tolerant for uncertainty; someone willing to sacrifice a degree of fun to drive and attractive styling in order to get greater reliability and dependability.

Nevertheless, we know from data analyses that overall owners who experience quality problems defect, and those who don’t tend to stick around, regardless of the brand of vehicle owned.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
0 Posts
J.D. Powers would better rename their study as "perceived dependability", but that is less interesting for media and people.
It is J.D. Powers itself that writes in the comments below the charts that "Rankings are based on numerical scores, and not necessarily on statistical significance.".

That said a big role in customers peception is originated by dealership experience, mainly by post purchase experience.

If it was for me I would have sell points separated from service points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
769 Posts
J.D. Powers would better rename their study as "perceived dependability", but that is less interesting for media and people.
It is J.D. Powers itself that writes in the comments below the charts that "Rankings are based on numerical scores, and not necessarily on statistical significance.".

That said a big role in customers peception is originated by dealership experience, mainly by post purchase experience.

If it was for me I would have sell points separated from service points.

The service (or lack of service / repairs) by the dealership after purchase has always been my biggest concern abut a dealership.

Almost any dealership can sell you a new car at a competitive price - it is the service department that will keep you returning as a customer, or quickly drive you away to another business. Quality work and timely service from a new car dealership (customer-pay or warranty work) is so hard to find. I’m convinced that the owners of new car dealerships often don’t realize the importance of good service (not favors - just quality work).

It has been my experience with 50 years of vehicle ownership that ew car service dealerships often charge a premium labor price for substandard work. Rarely do you hear someone complaint about their new vehicle purchase - they complain about the poor service when the vehicle is taken to the service department for repairs. The poor dealer service causes a poor impression of the vehicle and the brand.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top