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Weight-and-balance coupled with mileage ... I believe so. We're either On the same page, or close to it.Dr. Z said:
The Automobile Club de l'Ouest, The 24 Hours of Le Mans!
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I personally wish to thank all those members that joined in on this discussion this weekend, ESPECIALLY the new members & Viper fans that logged in & posted their thoughts with us. Your continued support & commentary for the Viper Program throughout the 2013 ALMS season is greatly appreciated & we hope to see more of your support as SRT now heads to Lime Rock for the next ALMS race!
Also, my deepest thanks to our ALMS head reporter & Allpar collegue, Hemi Magnum, (Ron Granados) for such great coverage & assistance with the race reports this weekend, also a big thanks for sticking with the race for nearly all 24 hours of the race.
Other thanks go out to reporters Mike V., SkyBlade, & Jeepnut for their additional supporting reports & pictures from LeMans. It is reporting like this that seperates Allpar.com from any other enthusiast forum on the internet! I only hope we can carry success & keep the interest of you, the reader & member like this into other forms of motorsport here on Allpar.com. We simply can't succeed without your involvment or taking the time to post here in this section!
Oficially we have broke a new Allpar record here in the Motorsports News Section as this thread now has at the time of this notice being written has recived 7606 views this weekend across two threads - 6646 views here (New Record) & 960 in Mopar News & Rumors and potentially still may climb into next week? This viewership total is higher than ANY of the individual NASCAR race coverage threads we had here through all of last year! It's so great to see how many enthusiasts & Chrysler race fans care & come together! This is a very proud moment & achievement here on Allpar.com, once again, if you viewed this thread this weekend, pat yourself on the back, for you have my sincere gratitude & thanks! Let keep this performance going into next week!
Sincerely,
MoparBob.
Also, my deepest thanks to our ALMS head reporter & Allpar collegue, Hemi Magnum, (Ron Granados) for such great coverage & assistance with the race reports this weekend, also a big thanks for sticking with the race for nearly all 24 hours of the race.
Other thanks go out to reporters Mike V., SkyBlade, & Jeepnut for their additional supporting reports & pictures from LeMans. It is reporting like this that seperates Allpar.com from any other enthusiast forum on the internet! I only hope we can carry success & keep the interest of you, the reader & member like this into other forms of motorsport here on Allpar.com. We simply can't succeed without your involvment or taking the time to post here in this section!
Oficially we have broke a new Allpar record here in the Motorsports News Section as this thread now has at the time of this notice being written has recived 7606 views this weekend across two threads - 6646 views here (New Record) & 960 in Mopar News & Rumors and potentially still may climb into next week? This viewership total is higher than ANY of the individual NASCAR race coverage threads we had here through all of last year! It's so great to see how many enthusiasts & Chrysler race fans care & come together! This is a very proud moment & achievement here on Allpar.com, once again, if you viewed this thread this weekend, pat yourself on the back, for you have my sincere gratitude & thanks! Let keep this performance going into next week!
Sincerely,
MoparBob.
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4,642 Posts
... Speaking of NASCAR, any news on factory-Chrysler's return to Cup racing?
I generally dislike NASCAR, but see it as a necessary evil (the Why's are too detailed to get into); yet, I'd really like to see a competitive effort to come up against the Hendrick & JJohnson show. By the way, is Hendrick/CKnaus/JJohnson the unacknowledged son of Smokey Yunick, by any chance?
I generally dislike NASCAR, but see it as a necessary evil (the Why's are too detailed to get into); yet, I'd really like to see a competitive effort to come up against the Hendrick & JJohnson show. By the way, is Hendrick/CKnaus/JJohnson the unacknowledged son of Smokey Yunick, by any chance?
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I saw Audi 00012 flash a Viper in a chicane, the Viper instantly jumped ahead by a few feet and then moved over on the straightaway its even more significant knowing they held back. I got a chuckle out of seeing it.
A Viper with a V10 is not a Viper, The fact that Both cars went the distance is a tribute to reliability,
A Viper with a V10 is not a Viper, The fact that Both cars went the distance is a tribute to reliability,
To settle the V8 talks, from an interview last year with the lead engineer Matt Bejnarowicz
http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2012/08/behind-the-scenes-with-gts-r-lead-engineer-matt-bejnarowicz.html
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The international swing continues into next week everyone as Team Dodge heads to Munich Germany for the next Global Rally-Cross event! This all-new race thread is coming up later this evening! Let's show our love & support like everyone did this weekend & get behind the Dodge Dart racing program!
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That's a non-answer to me ... I don't accept that.drew54 said:
I realize that's all he's going to be divulging, but I think I'd rather hear: "No Comment."
'Viper can only be a V10 blah-blah-blah' is good for those who readily accept the yoke that Marketing puts on you. His response is reminiscent of that.
With one eye on the rule book, I lean toward putting in the best stuff you can put into the car to make that car a winner. If your best stuff trends away from the norm, say to a trick V6 while others are using V8's or V12's, then drop that 6 in. Honestly, I wouldn't mind a Diesel Viper if it will post victories and create difficulties for the competition to catch up. ( I rather like Diesel ... but hopefully, you get the point ).
On another note, When Fiat were settling-in and the topic of what to do with the Viper bubbled up to the top of the discussion list, did they (Italians) ever bristle at the fact that there's a Lamborghini-core to the Viper - perhaps with some hope to morph the model or nudge it into another direction? That would be interesting to know.
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The Viper will be a V10, until sometime beyond the end of time. I would estimate that the first Viper to NOT have a V10, will be the generation intro'd the model year AFTER the universe collapses in on itself in a reverse big bang. RG hisself said that Viper "will always have a V10". OK, so it will have a V10. Nobody said it had to be an 8.4 liter pushrod! A 3.6 liter V6 divided by 6 cylinders equals 0.6 liters per cylinder. 0.6L per cylinder times 10 cylinders equals a 6.0L V10. Hmmmmmmm?
Going further...
A 3.2 liter V6 divided by 6 cylinders equals 0.533 liters per cylinder. 0.533 liters per cylinder times 10 cylinders equals a 5.33 liter V10. Spawning a new Viper V10 engine from an existing V6 doesn't seem all that far fetched to me, and if the P-Star were to morph into a Viper powerplant its output per liter would go way way up. The way I see it, spawning a new Viper engine from a current engine, is right in line with Viper's history.
Is there any other place such a package could be used?
Maser'? Alfa?
What is the distance between the bore centers on the P-Star?
Or in other words, how long would a V10 version be? How much taller would it be? How heavy?
Sorry for the derail but this was too juicy to pass up.
Bob, I forgot to thank you for what you have been doing in the motorsport section, and with this coverage. Props, to you, and again, to Hemi' and the team.
Going further...
A 3.2 liter V6 divided by 6 cylinders equals 0.533 liters per cylinder. 0.533 liters per cylinder times 10 cylinders equals a 5.33 liter V10. Spawning a new Viper V10 engine from an existing V6 doesn't seem all that far fetched to me, and if the P-Star were to morph into a Viper powerplant its output per liter would go way way up. The way I see it, spawning a new Viper engine from a current engine, is right in line with Viper's history.
Is there any other place such a package could be used?
Maser'? Alfa?
What is the distance between the bore centers on the P-Star?
Or in other words, how long would a V10 version be? How much taller would it be? How heavy?
Sorry for the derail but this was too juicy to pass up.
Bob, I forgot to thank you for what you have been doing in the motorsport section, and with this coverage. Props, to you, and again, to Hemi' and the team.
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Not a problem for me ... and yes it is juicy.Muther said:
I'm in at least general agreement with you.
Displacement issues being what they are with the 8.0L ( homologating the Viper being the chief problem ), it seems the smart thing would be to investigate doing as you suggest - leveraging existing tech (the basics are already in their parts bins). A smaller displacement base engine could surprise the competition. Even if it yields just power on par, but reliably boosts fuel economy; it would aid pit strategies.
I really wanted to address what you said about a Pushrod V-configured engine.
Now with two other notable brands more or less In-house ( vis-a-vis' Ferrari and Maserati ), there are other options that could be explored. 4-valve per cylinder OHC is the obvious assumption; but historically there have been successful 5-valve designs; and 6-valve design that was tested, but not produced. Reference to Maserati above gives the in-house nod to their explorations from the 1980's ( http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri26.htm ). Maserati never built them; sticking with 4-valves per hole. But the 6-valve Turbo'd prototype made 130 BHP per litre. With 5.5 L displacement, that's a bunch of HP (minus HP leeching from the extra cylinders and mechanicals of a V10). But it does give pause to consider competitiveness from a different viewpoint - not just an 8.0L Push-rod V10 .
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I wasn't saying anything bad about push rod engines. They have lots of benefits. They are shorter, very compact,less complex, stone reliable, and produce excellent power, within their rev range. Multivalve engines add broader power, more revs, taller heavier less compact engines, that are more complex. I am a fan of both types. But this discussion should be moved to a new thread at this point.
Right now, the solution will likely be a review of the current restrictions on the viper. SRT/Riley had little to do with that.
LeMans tends to be different than other tracks, and races. Look at how the Vipers did at Sebring and Laguna Seca. They led for a long time at Sebring, and though they were midpack at Laguna, almost the entire class finished within about a second. That is tight racing. At LeSarthe, speed is very important, and the restrictor hurt that.
Right now, the solution will likely be a review of the current restrictions on the viper. SRT/Riley had little to do with that.
LeMans tends to be different than other tracks, and races. Look at how the Vipers did at Sebring and Laguna Seca. They led for a long time at Sebring, and though they were midpack at Laguna, almost the entire class finished within about a second. That is tight racing. At LeSarthe, speed is very important, and the restrictor hurt that.
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Yes, Javelin AMX, you are right. During Alejandro de Tomaso's reign at Maserati, he held a reception at the factory for dealers/distributors and friends of "the house" at around the 14th December each year. December 14th was the Birthday of Maserati.( l think l remember the date correctly)JavelinAMX said:
And each year he had to show something special, most of which never went into production. l used to attend these meetings, and l remember being quite excited about the 6 valve head. That was until my good friend Sig Cozza, one of the old racing engineers from the 50s an 60s whispered in my ear that they
had experimented with 5 and 6 valve heads on the formula 1 engines they supplied to among others the Cooper f1 team - 3l V12 - but did not find any noticable gain from them. As to output per liter, the biturbo engine was sold in certain markets in Europe in 2L verson with 306 hp in standard tune! That should equate something like 153 hp per liter. (Just another piece of useless information for you)
2003 pt cruiser, 1969 D200, 1966 Coronet 500, 1990 LeBaron Coupe
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Apparently the race rule regulators choked the viper into not being competitive. If only they allowed another 50hp.Mr.Source said:
I miss the days they were 700+hp and the viper was faster on the straightaways than the P2.
Too bad the race organizers didn't offer more practice days and then allow car changes to be more even. Thus if the other cars were faster on the straightaways allow the Viper to have less restrictive intake to match the other cars strait away speeds.
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Yet, Honda fielded an 8-valve Oval cylinder engine in a two-wheeler race series.Morty said:
So, the idea is not so much the number of valves as much as it is not accepting the status- quo with imposed limits. And harking back to Push-rod engines, Muscle-era cars cranked a boat-load of power with them. My thoughts were an unsanctioned vote for less/fewer limitations. I think they've got enough gear to pick-through under the Fiat-Chrysler umbrella to come up with a suitably competitive engine that logs the necessary horsepower and torque, yet clocks-in under displacement limit to largely avoid Restricters; with enough of their own brand stuff to make the Logo stand out.
I'll spare you the further discussion.
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I see your point Jav-, and it is very very valid. The question is, will SRT go for it? I don't think so, at least not until after the (eventual) merger, more debt has been paid, the Euro car market is better, and there is a stable mate to assist with the development costs. Negotiating less restriction is the likely route for now. The Viper racing cars and street cars are tied too closely together. they will awlays use the same engine.
Personally, I love the current Viper engine. I love its sound, I love the way it thumbs its nose at conventionality. Normally aspirated, i'd guess it still has another 50-100hp in it. I would also looooove to see a V10 version of the P-Star. 5.5 liters, 4v, DOHC, DI, done with the current firing pattern as the current engine (if possible) to retain the unique sound.
Personally, I love the current Viper engine. I love its sound, I love the way it thumbs its nose at conventionality. Normally aspirated, i'd guess it still has another 50-100hp in it. I would also looooove to see a V10 version of the P-Star. 5.5 liters, 4v, DOHC, DI, done with the current firing pattern as the current engine (if possible) to retain the unique sound.
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You might recall some years ago the Hennessey Viper? Twin-Turbo 1000HP ?Muther said:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1026823_hennessey-viper-beats-veyron-in-0-200mph-shoot-out.
So, yeah I don't doubt a capable tuner could make more HP happen.
Thumbs up on your idea of a 5.5L engine.
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