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I suspect they also would never have brought Chrysler and Dodge into the same showroom. In Europe they are clever enough to have competing brands which don't compete against each other.
In Europe many won't touch a car if it doesn't have an Italian/French/German/British badge on it. Hence 5 brand badges on the Ducato in Europe, 1 in the US. Same story with the Jumpy, which also gets Toyota badges. You can call it clever or call it parochial.
 

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If you care about Chrysler, you should be praying to St. Feuell of Detroit

View attachment 84002
As well. San Carlos de Portugal is St. Christine of Detroit's patron saint.
In Europe many won't touch a car if it doesn't have an Italian/French/German/British badge on it. Hence 5 brand badges on the Ducato in Europe, 1 in the US. Same story with the Jumpy, which also gets Toyota badges. You can call it clever or call it parochial.
I think it very much depends on where you are and what market segment. Obviously, German cars are the rule for corporate purchases. Still, you see quite a bit of non-German economy brands in the Rhine Valley. Granted some of those are Skoda and Seat, which are owned by VAG, but it is very common to see Renaults, Peugeots, and Citroens in Germany with "D" tags.
 
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Yes, it varies by country
France is 57% French, dominated by Stellantis and Renault
The top 6 brands in Germany are all German owned, Ford is the #7 brand.
Fiat dominates in Italy being more than twice the size of trailing VW, Ford, Renault and Peugeot.
The UK is mostly American and German, Vauxhall is the #6 brand, and again semi American owned with Stellantis.

In the US Toyota outsold GM, Stellantis and Ford this past quarter, making the big 4. Hyundai, Honda and Nissan are the next size group, followed by Subaru and VW.

Basically France and Germany are over half domestic, Italy is nearly 1/3 domestic, while the US is around 45% domestic, China is 43% domestic.

Of note China is far more important for the German brands than the US, but the US remains a bigger market than Germany for BMW and Porsche. Over half of all VWs were sold in China last year.

 

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Well said! You’ve made the most sound argument I have read for why and how to keep Chrysler viable. Hope someone who’s writing the checks is listening.
I agree, and would like to add one thing: Name Recognition.
New brands would kill to have the name recognition of Chrysler. The history, the heritage, the recent hits (300, Pacifica) and past successes (PT Crusier, New Yorker, LHS, Imperial, Town and Country, etc.) make the Chrysler brand name VERY valuable. You could design the nicest luxury vehicle in the best segment in the USA, then what are you going to sell it as? Citroen, Peugeot, DS, Lancia, Maserati...or Chrysler? Which sells better in the US? Which has the best name recognition, most dealerships, etc.
That's another reason to keep building vehicles under the Chrysler nameplate.

JS
 

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I agree, and would like to add one thing: Name Recognition.
New brands would kill to have the name recognition of Chrysler. The history, the heritage, the recent hits (300, Pacifica) and past successes (PT Crusier, New Yorker, LHS, Imperial, Town and Country, etc.) make the Chrysler brand name VERY valuable. You could design the nicest luxury vehicle in the best segment in the USA, then what are you going to sell it as? Citroen, Peugeot, DS, Lancia, Maserati...or Chrysler? Which sells better in the US? Which has the best name recognition, most dealerships, etc.
That's another reason to keep building vehicles under the Chrysler nameplate.
Chrysler would have to care and promote their heritage, something they've rarely done, and when they have done it, they've often managed to get it wrong.

I think Maserati is more valuable than Chrysler as a brand right now... ! Lancia might work here, too, if we're going to be honest with ourselves. But that depends on what they sell under the name. Regardless, the decision was made to use Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Fiat, Alfa, Maserati, and Ram here for a test period and then consider dropping one or more.

If I had to guess, I'd say Fiat was a definite goner, and the jury is out on Chrysler and Alfa - keeping in mind that's totally a guess.
 

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Chrysler would have to care and promote their heritage, something they've rarely done, and when they have done it, they've often managed to get it wrong.

I think Maserati is more valuable than Chrysler as a brand right now... ! Lancia might work here, too, if we're going to be honest with ourselves. But that depends on what they sell under the name. Regardless, the decision was made to use Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Fiat, Alfa, Maserati, and Ram here for a test period and then consider dropping one or more.

If I had to guess, I'd say Fiat was a definite goner, and the jury is out on Chrysler and Alfa - keeping in mind that's totally a guess.
Maserati has kept its upmarket image by not selling economy cars just like Mercedes and BMW in the US. The US has been Maserati's most important or second most important market for the past 50 years. Does that make it more valuable than Chrysler? That depends upon potential sales. High margins times very low sales is still less valuable than moderate margins at high sales volume.

If we are going to be honest with ourselves Fiat, Alfa and Lancia don't stand a snowball's chance in a hot place of doing well in the US. They never have done well here. People badmouth Chrysler on here saying it is associated with bankruptcy. How do they think Fiat wound up with Alfa and Lancia? The same way Peugeot got Citroen, by being a little boutique automaker more concerned with quirky engineering than running a profitable auto company. Fiat itself is synonymous with government bailouts.

Most Americans don't care that Alfa was dominant in formula one racing in the early '30s before being kicked from that position by Mercedes and Auto Union (Audi) in the late '30s. That it is where Ferrari got its start is about as relevant as Audi and VW being where Porsche got its start.

What Alfa has sold best was little Subaru clones, followed closely by FWD Chrysler clones.
Lancia fans act like the little upscale subcompact for women is an aberration, it is actually the rule and the rally cars are the aberration.


The brands have never sold well in the US and it would be a futile uphill battle to make them work when Stellantis already owns Chrysler and Dodge.

If they do a proper restoration of Chrysler it will recover, but that depends upon competitive product in all the large non pickup segments, compact and midsize cars and subcompact, compact and midsize SUVs. This could be done on the former PSA platforms which will become STLA Small and STLA Medium.
 

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To me Chrysler IS NOT the badboy car Dodge is. Some of us prefer the refined styling Chrysler has and the brand seems to gain respect from parking lot attendants.
To me Chrysler needs 2 things. Plushness to take on Lincoln directly. As some reviewers have said, Lincoln is in a luxury category with only a few competitors. This is because they tune their cars to be on the softer side for ride comfort, which I like. Most others, and even Cadillac are moving towards the firmer, stiffer, sportier end of luxury. Chrysler should be another option for softness. This, and high range.
 

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To me Chrysler needs 2 things. Plushness to take on Lincoln directly. As some reviewers have said, Lincoln is in a luxury category with only a few competitors. This is because they tune their cars to be on the softer side for ride comfort, which I like. Most others, and even Cadillac are moving towards the firmer, stiffer, sportier end of luxury. Chrysler should be another option for softness. This, and high range.
Use DS for design inspiration, but soften things up.
 

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Chrysler would have to care and promote their heritage, something they've rarely done, and when they have done it, they've often managed to get it wrong.

I think Maserati is more valuable than Chrysler as a brand right now... ! Lancia might work here, too, if we're going to be honest with ourselves. But that depends on what they sell under the name. Regardless, the decision was made to use Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Fiat, Alfa, Maserati, and Ram here for a test period and then consider dropping one or more.

If I had to guess, I'd say Fiat was a definite goner, and the jury is out on Chrysler and Alfa - keeping in mind that's totally a guess.
Dave, I think you are right about Maserati if it is handled right. Maserati is the natural competitor for Merc/BMW/Jag. MB and BMW emphasize German craftsmanship and tech, Jaguar the English walnut and leather. Maserati would be perfect with an emphasis on style and racing heritage. Be Stellantis' F1 and GP division also. I think their intent was to make Fiat the new entry car, replacing Plymouth. However, the brand is poison in the US. Hell, it was poison 50 years ago. From what I gather, Lancia has a single model, a luxo compact built on the Fiat 500 platform. Not really needed in the US, although some Lancia/Chrysler cross branding was done in Europe. Then again, maybe for the US market. It comes in gas, hybrid, and electric versions, and is a hot seller in Italy, so it is amortized. Something as a Chrysler, perhaps?
 

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Use DS for design inspiration, but soften things up.
DS seems to be using the Japanese for exterior design inspiration, that isn't where Chrysler should go. Interiors are another matter, they could take some inspiration from DS.

For suspension tuning the big thing is to not go below a 50 series tire and not have a super low ground clearance. You shouldn't have to worry about bending a wheel in a pothole or scraping on speed bumps. I don't think you have to go softer than the French.
 

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I'm assuming Chrysler will be more mass market based on Peugeot platforms. As I said before, think “Plymouth with chrome.” Or, better, “original Plymouth” — something selling at a premium from base models, but offering much more. That said, to get the premium you do have to offer more... and that's increasingly hard. For $28,000 I can get a Mazda3 Premium that comes with every gadget known to Man.
 

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I'm assuming Chrysler will be more mass market based on Peugeot platforms. As I said before, think “Plymouth with chrome.” Or, better, “original Plymouth” — something selling at a premium from base models, but offering much more. That said, to get the premium you do have to offer more... and that's increasingly hard. For $28,000 I can get a Mazda3 Premium that comes with every gadget known to Man.
Yes well, I really hope you aren't implying that Chrysler brand should be selling $28,000 cars, or competing with Mazda3? I don't think that is a space that Chrysler would/could survive in, it really should be a Fiat at that price point. (ie: the new Plymouth, not Chrysler Brand) And what would the premium version be of a non-existent? base model?
I really believe that the day of Chrysler being any sort of 'mass market' brand is long gone. Jeep, Chevrolet and Ford are the only 'mass market' brands left in N/A along with the world brand of Toyota. Stellantis will have at best 3-4 top brands, and the rest will have to survive as 'niche' or 'sibling' brands to sustain production volumes world wide. Chrysler is far better paired with DS than Peugeot, both in historical market position and future marketing. Let Dodge have the Peugeots to create some smaller vehicles for itself.
 

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I really believe that the day of Chrysler being any sort of 'mass market' brand is long gone. Jeep, Chevrolet and Ford are the only 'mass market' brands left in N/A along with the world brand of Toyota.
And Volkswagen, Hyundai, Kia, and Mitsubishi. I'm probably forgetting a few.

My point was that a $28,000 Mazda comes with all sorts of technology I can't get in a Jeep Compass or Renegade, or for that matter any Dodge, or the Chrysler sedan.
 

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Having never watched any of the "Cars" movie franchise, I wouldn't have known that.

This just really confirms it......I really am Pop-Culturally-Deprived!:p:D
You really should watch the first one. The art is terrific. I haven't seen the others. My kids grew up.
 
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