[Jeepnut]

His comments about the new Liberty scare me. I'm sure it will be a decent crossover and all but it will not match the capability that should be inherent in every Jeep. Given the rumored drivetrains I don't see how they will even have a low range available. I do understand the need to make the brand profitable and the popularity of crossovers but to me it seems that management has either become lazy or just doesn't get it. What does this attitude say for the future of the Wrangler how long before it's just a glorified crossover and Jeep becomes irrelevant!

 

[Jeepnut]

Now doubt, I agree fully that it will be a nice CAR. But hardly a Jeep. I personally would be fine with this, if they'd just add another real Jeep. Sergio is a car guy. I think he grasps what makes a good car, but appreciating a Jeep is a whole different ball game, different tastes. I suspect that if they were convinced to offer a proper solid roof Jeep, sergio would once again be extremely surprised at it's sales.

I would forgive them the car based Jeeps if they would expand the Wrangler variants so you would have a "best of both worlds" situation but all we seem to get are excuses while they tease us with concepts we will never be able to buy. I'm sick and tired of waiting only to be disappointed over and over.

 

[Jeepnut]

really that's all jeep should make is wrangler, a pickup truck, and something liberty size.

I never said or implied that read my post again

 

[Jeepnut]

my comment was speaking for me not for you, don't know why you took it that way.

My apologies I misread the meaning of your post. That's what I get for trying to sneak and use my phone at work :lol:

 

[Jeepnut]

I'm surprised at the negativity of the first few comments. The experience and competence of Jeep engineers at making 4x4 systems would make them capable of delivering a good 4x4 out of any platform, as proven by the more than decent new Compass, based on what many define as a dreadfull platform.
And given that they are, this time round, working on a far more than decent mid size platform, conceived for front, rear and/or all wheel drive from the offset, I really can't see a reason for this fuss.
Let's take the GC: it was built on a Daimler derived architecture, not much Jeep in its pedigree. But I think we all agree that it's turn out to be a darn good Jeep.
The same will happen with the Liberty (or should I call it Cherokee?).
Period.

Personally I believe the shock and awe at seeing the new Liberty won't be of disappointment, rather of surprise and approval. I actually expect something on the line of the transition Land Rover made from its boxy Range Rover to the sleek Evoque.

And I like that.

I don't think anyone is questioning the capability of the engineers but they have to work under managments direction. That is where the breakdown happens. Mahogany row has to understand the brand and take action accordingly. Im like Norm I think Sergio and Manely see Jeep as Just an SUV brand and not as the Jeep brand

 

[Jeepnut]

Not necessarily, but from what I understand, the Wrangler production line and platform haven't been optimized for flex manufacturing. If/when production constraints have been removed and the design parameters revised to meet the needs of wrangler based trucks / hardtop variants we will see a flowering of "true jeeps".

And on that day I will do my happy dance :lol:

 

[Jeepnut]

One Jeep, one driver, is not enough anecdotal information for you to make an informed decision, especially when you read it second hand.
MB Jeeps set the standard for everything that followed and these Jeeps did indeed traverse these trails with tiny tires, small engines and open diffs.
Size is unimportant to the discussion, ability and potential is what it's about.

Just another anecdotal story here but at my last job I worked with a gentleman from Colombia who grew up working on a coffee farm (I guess you would call it a farm?) he was a huge Jeep fan because the farm used second hand MB's massively overloaded with coffee bags and would traverse the backwoods of the farm with no issues and were very reliable. The point of the story being with these new crop of car based Jeeps could any of the next generations world wide speak of Jeep and it's capability with the same high regard as past generations have. That is the legacy Jeep has can it be the legacy they will have?

 

[Jeepnut]

I haven't read through the rest of the thread yet, but I have an extremely hard time believing that anyone in their right mind has ever enjoyed driving down a highway in a TJ with a soft top at anything near 55 mph. The ride and the wind noise for over 5 hours was one of the worst driving experiences I've ever had in my life, but definitely a close second to driving a Panda at 100 mph down the autostrade in Italy.

My only point here is that, without looking at sales figures, as the Wrangler has become more livable as a means of daily transportation the sales figures must have gone up. Perhaps that's where some of the reasoning lies in making Jeeps less capable, but more compliant to roads where they spend the vast majority of their time. I will gladly eat crow if the numbers show otherwise.

I disagree I used to bomb down the highway in my TJ top down doors off and loved it. I took many a long road trip in that thing. To be honest I used to find any excuse to take road trips just so I could ride around in it

 

[Jeepnut]

I appreciate your story and can personally tell you that Colombians are a wonderful bunch of people as I have learned in my past dealings with them.

However, I'm afraid that your story has two major flaws in it:

1. I'm pretty sure that a more than 50 year old Jeep is about the only thing that a Colombian farmer could afford. Granted this is taking into account they are growing a legal crop, if you know what I mean.

2. You talk about them using a capable Jeep(manly) for their work, while at the same time comparing it to a less capable Jeep(girly). I would bet that if they purchased a used JK however many years from now they would have basically the same experience they were talking about today.

I too would like to see Jeep continue as a solid, off-road capable brand, so please don't take my comment as any type of attack. Just attempting to put things a little further into context.



To each his own I suppose, but I would think that if you took 100 people down a highway in a TJ and then a JK the majority would prefer the JK. I can't speak to off-road prowess between the two, so perhaps that's where the TJ "wins"?

1 the gentleman I was speaking of is in his late 50's and worked on that farm in his later teens early 20's and it wasn't his he just worked there and the Jeeps belonged to the owner of the place.
2 I'm not saying the JK isn't capable I was speaking to the rest of the lineup. And yes I know the JK is a more comfy Wrangler while still being a true Jeep

 

[Jeepnut]

While putting "Jeep" on inferior products that should have been Dodges and Chryslers initially helped Daimler sell what were basically very poor vehicles of any name, the Grand Cherokee, Compass and Patriot did not make money for Chrysler until they were refreshed,
Saying they made money to support Wrangler, or even saying they made money, is a LIE.

Considering the build numbers for the Wrangler in 2011 (162,000+) and they sold pretty much all of the I don't think the Wrangler needs some Girly Jeep to justify it's existence!! So yea your right

 

[Jeepnut]

Sad thing is this craptastic Manley Jeep will sell like hotcakes so management will think it's ok to keep building Jeeps like this

 

[Jeepnut]

amen

Notice how the real Jeep fans are rabid for a real Jeep!

 

[Jeepnut]

Frickin cameras always hijacking Jeep threads mods please do something about this :lol: :lol:

 

[Jeepnut]

Well another week of searching has proven to be uneventful, so they may have slipped into and out of town unnoticed, disguised as Volvo XC 90's...

It's alot of land for one man to search. Were the testers supposed to be full pre production Liberkee bodies or the Dart/Giulietta mules

 

[Jeepnut]

They postponed... or so I'm told. The source has been good before.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that we were to public about sending our "spies" out. Maybe next time send 00Norm out then post the results of his trip.

 

[Jeepnut]

Actually we did PM, initially.
But I'll admit I was surprised to see the thread started.
The element of surprise is always an advantage, once they know you're looking for them, they can adjust time, place and add camo.
So I agree with your assessment.

I'm actually really interested/nervous to see the Liberkee. It will NEVER be on my shopping list but all the same I'm curious as to the final design.

 

[Jeepnut]

Yes and No.
If it's a good vehicle (like Grand Cherokee) it will probably sell OK.
Being a good vehicle, doesn't make it a good Jeep and further opens up management to derision.

One can argue that Jeep should have a poser like Grand Cherokee to cater to those buyers who would on occasion engage 4 wheel drive and then think they were "Jeeping".
It's harder to argue that every Jeep should be a poser. However when management doesn't get their own customers, it's an up hill battle to get them to comprehend what the Jeep brand means. They own it now and to them Jeep just means a profitable marquee, with lip service to heritage and capability.

I'm torn the Chrysler fan in me wants the Liberkee to sell like hotcakes but the Jeep fan doesn't want them to sell a single one just so management see's that a different road is needed

 

[Jeepnut]

I have to believe that with the Wrangler selling
The way it is they have to be seriously working on the next gen and the plant expansion as soon as humanly possible.

 

[Jeepnut]

Remember the "baby Jeep" was already delayed to accelerate development of it's twin the500X

 

[Jeepnut]

I don't doubt it's coming. I do doubt that it's coming from a "Fiat" plant.
More likely from a NAFTA or non Italian facility.

Given the capacity issues that seem to be cropping up at Toluca where do you feel is the most likely spot for the 500X/Jeep light to be built.