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Liberkee® launch: While many of you are pondering how a 'larger Patriot/Compass' will do, here's another angle to consider:

Liberkee®, depending on execution, may be seen as a more affordable Grand Cherokee, and if more available on lots, may be actually an alternative to the GC, if GC's arent' readily available. Hence, keeping TNAP busy, while relieving demand on JNAP, freeing up production for GW/Kabang.
 

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I haven't read through the rest of the thread yet, but I have an extremely hard time believing that anyone in their right mind has ever enjoyed driving down a highway in a TJ with a soft top at anything near 55 mph. The ride and the wind noise for over 5 hours was one of the worst driving experiences I've ever had in my life, but definitely a close second to driving a Panda at 100 mph down the autostrade in Italy.
Ah.hah! So a TJ & Panda are similar driving experiences for you. There we have it, proof that they will be fine stablemates. :)
 

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There is talk that only the 3.2 will be in Liberkee because the 3.6 won't fit. I don't know the dimensions of the 3.2.
There is typically no difference in external dimensions of different displacement motors within the same engine family. Just as 3.3/3.8 are externally identical, or slant six 198/225 or.. etc..
What makes the difference is increase in bore or crankshaft stroke. Bore center to center remains the same.
 

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It all depends on the budget available for the system to determine which would meet the tradeoff requirements.

True, as far as you go.

There is deck height differences (170 Slant 6 was NOT the same height as 198 or 225)

Also, you have engine dress to consider between engines.
Yes, there can be deck height diff. But typically, that is the exception, rather than the rule. (that's why I didn't mention the 170). ;)
Usually, stroke differences are made up in piston pin to crown distance & crank stroke, while still fitting within the constraints of basic common block dimensions. Was just trying to dispel the MYTH that because displacement is larger: therefore size is larger.
 

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Strategies change as the times change. And if you've looked outside lately, times are changing.
The times they are a changin'.
Yeah, seems odd. I went to the music store to see if Dylan had something new out on 8track. Store was closed, the guy next door said try a place called BestBuy. Hmm.. odd, I thought--sounded like a grocerystore name, but what the heck I'll try it. Went there, some kid that worked there, kinda just stared at me.. said check eye-tunes ?? I asked.. was that the optometrist?? and was he insulting me that I couldn't see to find the 8track section.

Punk kid... He finally explained that eye-tunes went on eye-pods. They seemed small, wasn't sure that you could play an eye-pod in a 8track deck. I asked the punk kid if he was sure that you could put an eye-pod in an 8track deck..

he said no.

Hmm.. so, you need a different player to play an eye-pod. (still didn't see any Dylan albums in the eye-pod section.. just Apple label stuff--not really into the Beatles, but I was polite ). Finally, after him going on about different 'pods', I asked about if they had any Dylan pods, or was it just Apple label artists? He said they were all Apple, any kind of music. I guess Apple made enough off of the Beatles to be the only record label now.

Strange. I feel like an alien... so "don't ask me, i'm only visting this planet".
Yeah, I guess the times , they are a changin'.
Hrmm..
(extra points if you know the only visiting this planet reference without googling it)
 

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i mean alternative to Wrangler. there's plenty of alternatives for the rest of the them.
Probably, the only thing that is somewhat close is: Toyota LandCruiser 70. NOT Toy LC Prado70, NOT LC100, NOT LC200. Confusion lies in that lesser models, and luxo models all being called LandCruiser. LC70 has never been available in USA, only rest of world. Available in Canada, but only to the mining industry.

It's not direct competition, as it has different end use, but probably the closest.
Solid axles, coil springs front, leaf rear. Manual locking hubs, V8Diesel.

wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70)


best /easiest to read specs for 'mericans is the Austrailia site:
http://www.toyota.co...#still-powerful
 

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Yes Dan,
It's similar to Jeep only selling the Wrangler J8 diesel overseas.
Apparently Management doesn't think Americans are tough enough for these versions and reserve the pap for us. ;)
I think it has to do with investment tradeoffs. Dollars spent in selling a Lexus GX or RX etc. will return more $$ than investment put into selling LC70. (in the USA anyway). ROI.

USA market seems to want the american style pick-em-up for work, whereas other markets don't take to the american pickups and therefore something like LC70 will sell to both off-road and commerical markets.

(thats my armchair analysis, and i'm sticking to it... well, until I come up with something else ;) )
 

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Which is what I was saying above. I think Dan was questioning Journey's current build location being shared with 500???
No, I was stating that Toluca is not currently a SUSW plant.

Small platform plants:
Melfi: SCSS-Punto
Serbia: SUSW-500L, 500XL
Miafiorai: current: SCSS: MiTo, Musa, Idea. Future: SUSW--MiTo, JeepB, 500X.
Tofas, Turkey: SCSS: various, Fiorinia, Qubo, Doblo, Linea, etc.
Also Brazil: SCSS various
 

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Cadillac used to think the same until it launched Cimarron.

A brand can only take so many beatings...no matter how strong.
Not sure that that is a fair comparison. I think we'll have to wait to determine capability of the new Cherokee.
Cimarron was NOT best in class, had it been, it's reputation might have been significantly different.
IF the new Cherokee has the best off road capability of anything else in that class, then perhaps Jeep as a brand still means what it's supposed to.
 

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He DOES have global aspirations for Jeep, however what everyone is missing is this;
Russia, china, much of Asia, Africa, South America and the Middle East have a need for MORE capable Jeeps, not less capable Jeeps.
If by Global he means France and Germany, then the Alfa based Liberkee® works fine, if he means the portions of the world I listed, he needs the XJ.
To answer a couple questions:

Yes, RAM is specifically North America.

GasAxe: You posted while I was composing, see below:

Norm, you answered your question yourself, maybe without knowing. How does one conquer the world (global)? By doing it one country at a time. Right now, whats on the plate to conquer for Jeep is western europe. Think about what it takes to conquer sales. It requires dealer network, infastructure. Where Fiat+Chrysler is strongest at is North America, Western Europe, then Brazil. That's where Jeep is going next, so yeah, products that work for France and Germany are in the pipeline, next will be Brazil.

VW has just shown the Taigun concept in Brazil (CUV based on Up!). We all know that VW is the enemy, hence... Jeep B-segment.

Will Africa/MiddleEast/Asia and product for those markets come? sure, but not right now, down the road. One thing at at time. Only so much $$ and time. If western europe is successful, then most likely, better things are to come.

PS. I know the statement or argument is going to be by chasing western europe, does Jeep as a brand loose credibility? We can hammer that point all we want, but the true answer to that depends on the outcome of capability of product. Will the product be the 'best in class' , sales, and perception of that capability.

PPS. Today Europe, tomorrow Brazil, then the World!
 

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Thanks.
That's what I feared and why I think those who say, "they have to do this now, but they will give us "real" Jeeps later"' are laboring under hope, not reality.
I fear we have crossed the point of no return and barring a drop in sales or new management, we are never going back to capable Jeeps.
Possibly. My point was that, yes Jeep is going globally more than ever before, but as a business, doin so takes effort, time, money. The most profitable route is to use the network that's in place, meaning Lancia-Jeep dealers in europe. Then probably Brazil, although I don't know if they plan to dual Jeep with Fiat there--haven't heard. It's a significant amount of investment to establish distribution, dealer channels, tech training, parts availability, etc.

Western europe, the target is LandRover, like it or not. Evoque production is running full tilt. There's money to be made..

I agree that Brazil is different. As you pointed out, there are two directions. Smaller/fuel efficient 'beachcombers' or inland heavy duty. Diesels, yeah are a given.

I think that looking at a point of no return is a logical conclusion, but maybe I'm optimistic that there is good yet to come. Will the future bring the next gen Wrangler with more derivatives and variations? I think so. IF, companies like AEV continue to gain steam, the things they do won't go unnoticed.

There are still family ties to Iveco, and the Overland treks. Serious Jeeps can still be a fit there, maybe even using some of the dealer infastructure.

Liberkee is what it is, all the posting in the world isn't going to change it.
 
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