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My question is mainly about centeral and South America.
Mexico sells cars/cuv under the Ram name and we always get the same answer "it won't pass US standards"
QUESTION: Is their a general standard south of the border.,,IE,,,can a car made in Argentina be sold in Brazil, Mexico ect. without any changes and vis versa?
What is the differance? Are these cars 10 or 20 years behind US standards. I belive they all have air bags. Is it mainly crash standards or pollution standards?
 

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I believe it's the US safety standards that stop them from being sold here. They may have airbags, but not 7-9 of them, nor do they have backup cameras (mandated in the US since 2016), or other, modern, auto braking, blind spot warnings, etc.

Most of South America, Central America and Mexico have similar standards so that those models can sell anywhere south of our border (with a few exceptions, of course)

JS
 

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Yes, it would be nice if our useless politicians focused on harmonizing auto standards worldwide to make it easier for manufacturers to sell into other markets and giving consumers more choices.

But, instead of giving customers the biggest array of choices, politicians accept monetary donations in return for protecting their markets from outside competition.

In the US, both political parties do this. Around the world, all political parties do this.
 

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Yes, it would be nice if our useless politicians focused on harmonizing auto standards worldwide to make it easier for manufacturers to sell into other markets and giving consumers more choices.

But, instead of giving customers the biggest array of choices, politicians accept monetary donations in return for protecting their markets from outside competition.

In the US, both political parties do this. Around the world, all political parties do this.
Our politicians believe that we should be the trend setters and the rest of the world should catch up. Reality is that the third World cannot afford the cost of meeting our standards. If they had to pay all the upgrades, dealers would sell no new cars. We now finance for up to 7 years to purchase our upgraded standards.
 

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Go to a dealer there aren't any base cars and used costs close to the price of a new one. Why buy used unless a long term "guarantee" is included in the price. Kia....
 

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My question is mainly about centeral and South America.
Mexico sells cars/cuv under the Ram name and we always get the same answer "it won't pass US standards"
QUESTION: Is their a general standard south of the border.,,IE,,,can a car made in Argentina be sold in Brazil, Mexico ect. without any changes and vis versa?
What is the differance? Are these cars 10 or 20 years behind US standards. I belive they all have air bags. Is it mainly crash standards or pollution standards?
The Mercosur countries (Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay) try to establish a free market along the lines of the European Union, but it's something very initial and always hampered by local political issues. There is no continental entity that takes care of the rules for the trade bloc, but countries even try to align themselves to reduce these "technical barriers".

However, some barriers still exist. Brazil and Argentina have been exchanging cars for many years, however I believe that cars aimed at the Brazilian market need specific adaptations to the engine, since Brazil has bet heavily on Ethanol as an alternative fuel. Here, all gasoline, without exception, has the addition of anhydrous ethanol (somewhere between 20 ~ 30%, depending on the price of fuels, the country's economic situation etc.). Fueling a Brazilian car with pure gasoline can be harmful to the engine.

In addition, for a long time the brands have sold in Brazil two versions of their cars. One powered by our gasoline with ethanol and the other exclusively with ethanol, until the "Flex" cars began to appear, running on both fuels, in any proportion. Since then, the car being "Flex" has become a rule and a necessity. So I believe that every car manufactured for the Brazilian market is "Flex" today. Still, you can't run on "pure gasoline" from Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay. The only exception was a version of the old Fiat Siena called "Tetrafuel", which could be fueled with Brazilian gasoline, ethanol, "pure gasoline" and CNG (something common in Brazil in taxis, but made by workshops).

Visually, structurally or in terms of the tariff barrier, there is not much that prevents an Argentine car from being sold in Brazil (Fiat Cronos, Ford Ranger, Toyota Hilux, Citroen C4 Lounge, VW Amarok, Nissan Frontier are current examples) and the reverse too (here the examples are infinite). The biggest peculiarity is the Brazilian fuel.

Speaking of structural differences between cars for South and North America, I can't say for sure, but it's important to keep in mind that, as the "South" is an emerging market and therefore active safety items are optional or don't even exist as an option. I believe that these items today are very important in safety ratings (EuroNCAP, IIHS and NHTSA), but here "below the Equator" they take longer to arrive for two main reasons: 1) their high cost 2) the lack of demand countries by certification in tests such as those of LatinNCAP.
 

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My question is mainly about centeral and South America.
Mexico sells cars/cuv under the Ram name and we always get the same answer "it won't pass US standards"
QUESTION: Is their a general standard south of the border.,,IE,,,can a car made in Argentina be sold in Brazil, Mexico ect. without any changes and vis versa?
What is the differance? Are these cars 10 or 20 years behind US standards. I believe they all have air bags. Is it mainly crash standards or pollution standards?
Pollution, expectations (0-60 in 6 seconds is not required), fuel economy, safety standards, lighting conformity.
I believe it's the US safety standards that stop them from being sold here. They may have airbags, but not 7-9 of them, nor do they have backup cameras (mandated in the US since 2016), or other, modern, auto braking, blind spot warnings, etc.
Most of South America, Central America and Mexico have similar standards so that those models can sell anywhere south of our border (with a few exceptions, of course)
That's right, the Strada won't pass US crash tests. Most Fiat cars and trucks there are based on 1996-1999 European Fiats. Toro/ Mexican Neon are the notable exceptions. But they won't pass US standards either, just the EU ones.

A Fiat Mobi or Palio is equivalent to a 1990 Dodge Omni, or a 1996 Fiat Palio in crash protection. A Cronos is more like a 1990 Shadow or Daytona. The Toro is up to the level of a 1998 Intrepid. The 500X is up to present US standards.

For Europe cars like the Hyundai i10, Airways U5, Seat Mii, VW up!, Skoda CITIGO, etc. are not up to US standards. Jeep also sells the Renegade with fewer airbags than in the US in the little 1 liter 3 cylinder model. The basic Wrangler sold in Europe also scores very poorly on crash tests. The Giulietta and DS3 did poorly as well. They are both on older platforms C-Evo and PF-1

The Fiat Panda is especially poor and could not be sold in the US. The Fiat 500 required over 350 lbs of additional safety equipment for sale in the US.

Expectations are not driven by regulations. The Mitsubishi Mirage meets US regulations. Auto braking is a non binding agreement between automakers. As PSA was technically the buying party, Stellantis technically is not a part of that agreement. Blind spot warnings are not required by any regulation or agreement.

"Production of the new 208 began on July 31 in El Palomar, a satellite town of Buenos Aires, marking one of the most important launches in the brand’s history in both Argentina and Latin America. That’s because it signals a different approach from PSA Group with regards to the markets in the region. With the notable exception of VW, rival automakers present in Latin America typically offer small cars based on dated platforms."

Note from the test results VW, SEAT and Toyota have great crash test scores on Latin NCAP.

 

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Yes, it would be nice if our useless politicians focused on harmonizing auto standards worldwide to make it easier for manufacturers to sell into other markets and giving consumers more choices.

But, instead of giving customers the biggest array of choices, politicians accept monetary donations in return for protecting their markets from outside competition.

In the US, both political parties do this. Around the world, all political parties do this.
Whenever the regulators in Brussels come to their senses and adopt US safety regulations wholesale like Canada did we will be able to harmonize auto standards worldwide.
Our politicians believe that we should be the trend setters and the rest of the world should catch up. Reality is that the third World cannot afford the cost of meeting our standards. If they had to pay all the upgrades, dealers would sell no new cars. We now finance for up to 7 years to purchase our upgraded standards.
We are the trendsetters, and have been since 1970. Poor people should buy used cars, that is how to improve the fleet.

It isn't the US standards that make cars and trucks so expensive, it is American buyers. Spark, Mirage, Versa and Accent are available at $14K-$16K, but few buyers want them in the US.

 

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Go to a dealer there aren't any base cars and used costs close to the price of a new one. Why buy used unless a long term "guarantee" is included in the price. Kia....
It all depends upon what dealer. I went to the Honda dealer and they had plenty, on the back lot that wasn't open to customers. If you asked for one they went and got it.
 

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Whenever the regulators in Brussels come to their senses and adopt US safety regulations wholesale like Canada did we will be able to harmonize auto standards worldwide.

We are the trendsetters, and have been since 1970. Poor people should buy used cars, that is how to improve the fleet.

It isn't the US standards that make cars and trucks so expensive, it is American buyers. Spark, Mirage, Versa and Accent are available at $14K-$16K, but few buyers want them in the US.

Just because a lesser expensive car is available doesn't mean it fits. We have two vehicles. One is a Ram 1500 crew cab. Because I have a bench seat it fits 6 people and the cab is filled at least twice a month for family outings. The bed is used 2-4 times and capacity has been maxed out multiple times. It is a 3.6 so I can get 22mpg normal and 16-17 towing. The other is a Nissan Altima with 5 seats and a decent sized trunk. Unless it is a shopping trip there are 3-5 people in the car. Yes we could make use of a commuter style car but given the costs it does not make sense for me. I no longer have a commute to work. For that I drove a Corolla.
 

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Just because a lesser expensive car is available doesn't mean it fits. We have two vehicles. One is a Ram 1500 crew cab. Because I have a bench seat it fits 6 people and the cab is filled at least twice a month for family outings. The bed is used 2-4 times and capacity has been maxed out multiple times. It is a 3.6 so I can get 22mpg normal and 16-17 towing. The other is a Nissan Altima with 5 seats and a decent sized trunk. Unless it is a shopping trip there are 3-5 people in the car. Yes we could make use of a commuter style car but given the costs it does not make sense for me. I no longer have a commute to work. For that I drove a Corolla.
Obviously you should get the vehicle that meets your needs.

Stellantis needs to make cars for everyone's needs. A whole lot of those people drive alone to work and never carry heavy loads in one of their cars. There is a market for a small car in the US, but the Spark, Mirage, Versa, Accent and Rio are simply too boring for most people, and their cargo areas are too small. Spark and Mirage are simply under powered jokes for the US market, $16K is the true starting point. Versa, Accent and Rio are much closer to acceptable, but are still boring compacts.
Versa 177 x 68.5 x 57.3, 103.1" WB, 14.7 cu ft trunk, 122 HP NA 1.6 30 mpg combined
Accent 172.6 x 68.1 x 57.1, 101.6" WB, 13.7 cu ft trunk, 120 HP NA 1.6 33 mpg combined.
Rio 172.6 x 67.9 x 57.1, 101.6" WB, 13.7 cu ft trunk, 120 HP NA 1.6 33 mpg combined.

Chrysler and Dodge used to have this size car, but they were exciting and offered optional engines up to 224 HP.
Shadow 171.9 x 67.3 x 52.7, 97" WB, 14 cu ft hatch
LeBaron 179.0 x 68 x 52.9, 100.3" WB, 15 cu ft trunk
Town & Country 179.0 x 68.0 x 52.9, 100.3" WB 35 cu ft wagon
Daytona/Laser 179.0 x 69.3 x 50.6, 97" WB, 19 cu ft hatch
Lancer/LeBaron GTS 180.4 x 68.3 x 53 103.1" WB 18 cu ft hatch
Spirit/LeBaron 181.2 x 68.1 x 53.5 103.3" WB 14 cu ft trunk
LeBaron Coupe 184.8 x 68.5 x 50.9 100.3" WB 15 cu ft trunk
600/E Class 185.2 x 68.0 x 53.1 103.3" WB 17 cu ft trunk

New communter cars this size could succeed on EMP1/CMP, but they need utility, style and optional engines the Asian cars just don't have.
 

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Obviously you should get the vehicle that meets your needs.

Stellantis needs to make cars for everyone's needs. A whole lot of those people drive alone to work and never carry heavy loads in one of their cars. There is a market for a small car in the US, but the Spark, Mirage, Versa, Accent and Rio are simply too boring for most people, and their cargo areas are too small. Spark and Mirage are simply under powered jokes for the US market, $16K is the true starting point. Versa, Accent and Rio are much closer to acceptable, but are still boring compacts.
Versa 177 x 68.5 x 57.3, 103.1" WB, 14.7 cu ft trunk, 122 HP NA 1.6 30 mpg combined
Accent 172.6 x 68.1 x 57.1, 101.6" WB, 13.7 cu ft trunk, 120 HP NA 1.6 33 mpg combined.
Rio 172.6 x 67.9 x 57.1, 101.6" WB, 13.7 cu ft trunk, 120 HP NA 1.6 33 mpg combined.

Chrysler and Dodge used to have this size car, but they were exciting and offered optional engines up to 224 HP.
Shadow 171.9 x 67.3 x 52.7, 97" WB, 14 cu ft hatch
LeBaron 179.0 x 68 x 52.9, 100.3" WB, 15 cu ft trunk
Town & Country 179.0 x 68.0 x 52.9, 100.3" WB 35 cu ft wagon
Daytona/Laser 179.0 x 69.3 x 50.6, 97" WB, 19 cu ft hatch
Lancer/LeBaron GTS 180.4 x 68.3 x 53 103.1" WB 18 cu ft hatch
Spirit/LeBaron 181.2 x 68.1 x 53.5 103.3" WB 14 cu ft trunk
LeBaron Coupe 184.8 x 68.5 x 50.9 100.3" WB 15 cu ft trunk
600/E Class 185.2 x 68.0 x 53.1 103.3" WB 17 cu ft trunk

New communter cars this size could succeed on EMP1/CMP, but they need utility, style and optional engines the Asian cars just don't have.
1) Where would they make it? Too expensive in U.S.
2) What other strong countries have they have to market them in to get enough volume?
3) All models cited are before government and insurance requirements really made cars heavier.
 

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I work in a non-automotive industry (though we are a supplier to the auto industry).
15 years ago, we got FCC and UL certifications and we could sell worldwide.
Now, each country seems to have their own agency so approvals costs have skyrocketed. It's funny because the smaller markets were the first countries to demand their own approvals process be followed. It's almost like those agencies have to make noise to justify their existence.
 

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1) Where would they make it? Too expensive in U.S.
2) What other strong countries have they have to market them in to get enough volume?
3) All models cited are before government and insurance requirements really made cars heavier.
1) We know Italy is too expensive, the US is probably too expensive. Presently EMP1/CMP is made in Spain, France, Slovakia and Morocco. EMP2 is also made in China, Portugal, Germany, Malaysia, and the UK. Then there are many former FCA plants around the world that could be used.

2) Dodge and Chrysler should expand into China and Australia beyond their present sales range. With the US and China you have half of the world market. With different sheet metal from the firewall forward they become Opels in Germany and Russia, Peugeots in France, Spain, India and Iran, Fiats in Italy, Brazil and Turkey, and Vauxhalls in the UK.

3) No that isn't true, you completely missed the point. Versa 2600-2650 lb, Accent 2500-2680 lb and Rio 2770 lb are for sale in the US today for $16K. The same weights as the 80s/90s Dodge/Chryslers.

The Peugeot 208, 2008 and Opel/Vauxhall Corsa F (2400 lb) on EMP1/CMP are the same width and the proper wheelbase. The Chrysler/Dodge cars would be different top hats on those cars. They need to be modified to take the 1.3T/1.5T GSE engine and of course federalized. The base models don't wind up any more than 2800 lbs after federalization.
 

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Obviously you should get the vehicle that meets your needs.

Stellantis needs to make cars for everyone's needs. A whole lot of those people drive alone to work and never carry heavy loads in one of their cars. There is a market for a small car in the US, but the Spark, Mirage, Versa, Accent and Rio are simply too boring for most people, and their cargo areas are too small. Spark and Mirage are simply under powered jokes for the US market, $16K is the true starting point. Versa, Accent and Rio are much closer to acceptable, but are still boring compacts.
Versa 177 x 68.5 x 57.3, 103.1" WB, 14.7 cu ft trunk, 122 HP NA 1.6 30 mpg combined
Accent 172.6 x 68.1 x 57.1, 101.6" WB, 13.7 cu ft trunk, 120 HP NA 1.6 33 mpg combined.
Rio 172.6 x 67.9 x 57.1, 101.6" WB, 13.7 cu ft trunk, 120 HP NA 1.6 33 mpg combined.

Chrysler and Dodge used to have this size car, but they were exciting and offered optional engines up to 224 HP.
Shadow 171.9 x 67.3 x 52.7, 97" WB, 14 cu ft hatch
LeBaron 179.0 x 68 x 52.9, 100.3" WB, 15 cu ft trunk
Town & Country 179.0 x 68.0 x 52.9, 100.3" WB 35 cu ft wagon
Daytona/Laser 179.0 x 69.3 x 50.6, 97" WB, 19 cu ft hatch
Lancer/LeBaron GTS 180.4 x 68.3 x 53 103.1" WB 18 cu ft hatch
Spirit/LeBaron 181.2 x 68.1 x 53.5 103.3" WB 14 cu ft trunk
LeBaron Coupe 184.8 x 68.5 x 50.9 100.3" WB 15 cu ft trunk
600/E Class 185.2 x 68.0 x 53.1 103.3" WB 17 cu ft trunk

New communter cars this size could succeed on EMP1/CMP, but they need utility, style and optional engines the Asian cars just don't have.
I am not suggesting 8-12 cars, I would really count it as 3 or 4.

4500 mm 3/5 dr Shadow 17 cu ft hatch (perfect size for China).
4600 mm 2/4 dr LeBaron, 3dr Daytona, Wagon T&C 17 cu ft trunk, 19 cu ft hatch, 35 cu ft wagon
4700 mm 2 dr LeBaron, 4 dr Spirit, 5 dr LeBaron GTS 17 cu ft trunk, 18 cu ft hatch
 

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1) We know Italy is too expensive, the US is probably too expensive. Presently EMP1/CMP is made in Spain, France, Slovakia and Morocco. EMP2 is also made in China, Portugal, Germany, Malaysia, and the UK. Then there are many former FCA plants around the world that could be used.

2) Dodge and Chrysler should expand into China and Australia beyond their present sales range. With the US and China you have half of the world market. With different sheet metal from the firewall forward they become Opels in Germany and Russia, Peugeots in France, Spain, India and Iran, Fiats in Italy, Brazil and Turkey, and Vauxhalls in the UK.

3) No that isn't true, you completely missed the point. Versa 2600-2650 lb, Accent 2500-2680 lb and Rio 2770 lb are for sale in the US today for $16K. The same weights as the 80s/90s Dodge/Chryslers.

The Peugeot 208, 2008 and Opel/Vauxhall Corsa F (2400 lb) on EMP1/CMP are the same width and the proper wheelbase. The
1) What vehicle comes from the suggested countries that would meet your criteria without starting from the beginning? 1.3 will never meet your sporty fun criteria.
2) FCA HAS been in those countries with less than spectacular results. Most car manufacturers are/have left/leaving Australia because they aren't making money.
3) Are any of the cited cars exciting? I do remember when a Land Rover would sport a bumper sticker " 0 to 60 SAME DAY". Having driven some of them, they are not far from qualifying for that sticker.
 
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