[bpitts]

I had a shop remove the engine and I sent it out to have it re-built. Trying to install here at the house with my knowledgable neighbors who said it should drop in "like butter" (you reading this Larry?) We tried for about 3 hrs last night and can not get the engine / and 904 automatic to mate up. Seems like we need about a quarter inch more room to get them put together. oil pan is hitting k member barely, and when we get it moved back enough to clear the k member, we don't line up.

Thinking we may need to unbolt the transmission and try to push it back just a little, then mount the engine in and then re attach the transmission, but that seems like thats a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Any body got tips on getting that engine to mate with the trans without taking the trans loose.

We were SO close, but couldn't get it.

Brian Pitts
63 Valiant Convertible

 

[CudaPete]

Is the torque converter fully seated on the trnamission input shaft?

 

[dana44]

It sounds like the engine and transmission is together, and from there, the crossmemeber for the transmission removed, is it possible the motor mounts themselves on correct? Sometimes the transmission mount is catching on the trans crossmember it can throw things off. Also, check that the trans mount isn't backwards, which could also be offset and prevent the lineup of the three mounts (two engine and one transmission).

 

[bpitts]

CudaPete
I think the torque converter is fully seated, but will check again, we tried to push it back with a pry bar when the flex plate was buttef up against it and we couldn't get it to push back any further.

Dana44
Engine and trans are not together. Trans is still mounted in the car. Trying to put the motor in and mate it up with trans already mounted in.

 

[dana44]

OK, then get the engine out of the way, the torque converter is not seated properly. The end of the torque converter is round with two notches about half inch wide on each side, fits into the front pump. It is a gentle connection, prying won't do it, bolting it down too tight will bust the front pump, and when it is seated properly it will actually be in about half an inch and pull out to connect to the flex plate on the back of the crank. Pushing and turning rarely works, the end just catches the tangs of the front pump and turns, too. so it is a gentle pull back (not out of the seal, replace if it hasn't been done, hate to have an old seal start leaking, especially after all this), turn it about an inch, and push back in. Do this until it seats properly. When it does, you will know it.

 

[bpitts]

thanks man, I will try that. Sounds like that may be our issue. That torque converter was wallering around quite a bit when I was rolling the car around with the engine out, I'll bet it's out of place.

Thanks again, I'll update tomorrow night.

 

[bpitts]

one more thing, if it were seated properly, would it turn freely? or should it be somewhat locked in place? mine turns freely.

 

[68RT]

It will turn freely and sit back away from the flexplate. It is a definite movement into the transmission when the oil pump drive lugs mate up with the slot in the oil pump. Did you change the front oil seal? Now is the time to do that when you have direct access to it.

 

[Bearhawke]

Too; once your torque converter is 'happy', you will still need to clock the flex plate to it so all 4 bolts will fit, it bolts up one way for proper balance.. Don't worry once you have the engine bolted in and the converter turns, just move it via its teeth using a large screwdriver through the starter access hole.

 

[dana44]

Also, the cool thing is, if two bolts line up, they all line up.

 

[bpitts]

Great help here, Thanks, I did get the torque converter seated in and it all went smooth from there. I'll work on getting the flex plate bolted up tomorrow and plumbing and wiring everything up. Hopefully I can be driving again tomorrow night. Thanks again.

 

[bpitts]

We got everything installed and wired and plumbed and couldn't wait to fire it up. But we have yet to get it to fire. Here is what I have.

63 valiant convertible
Freshly rebuilt 225 bored .30 over
clifford 4-barrel intake and Holley 390 carb
dual split headers
pertronic electronic ignition
flamethrower coil
clifford torquemaster cam

We have spark, we've checked wiring and everything looks right
timing set to top dead center
we've tried turning the distributor left or right to see if it helped any

It turns and turns and tries to start, we've been so close but it wont kick.
I fouled one set of plugs and put a new set in. I've had 2 different guys come over to check my work and they both say it should start. We've poured a lot of gas and or starting fluid spray, but not getting anything. Keep hoping someone will come over and say "oh here's what wrong" but all I'm getting is " it should start"

Any of you experts have any thoughts? I'd love to be able to hear my new engine run.

Thanks


Also I ran this engine with new intake, the 4 barrel, the ignition and all that for about 2yrs and everything worked fine. The only thing that is really new is the rebuilt bottom end and the cam. Machine shop said everything was set dot to dot as recommend by Clifford. So I don't know.

 

[bpitts]

Could this be because when the new plugs were put in, we used the washers that come in the box? I'm thinking for some reason that Im not supposed to use those with the tubes that go in the spark plug hole. My friend says he always use the washers, but hes a Ford guy. Should I re install the plugs without the washers and try? I don't think I've used the washers before.

 

[dana44]

The depth of the plug with the washer will be shallower, but that should not prevent her from starting. Verify you do have spark to the sparkplugs so you can rule out the setting of the ignition gap, may have spark from the coil, not to the plugs themselves, or it may be off, making it weak. From there, line up the timing mark and again, verify TDC, check the rotor to the proper location and sparkplug, then think for a second, if the timing marks were dot to dot and the distributor was dropped in and you set the rotor to number 1 sparkplug wire, your timing will be 180 degrees out (trust me, it is), so, since the timing is 153624, you actually want it to be pointing to number 6 instead of number 1, then verify the rotation direction. If you did set the timing to #1 when TDC and dot to dot on the timing marks, simply pull the wires across from each other and swap them, it will start.

 

[bpitts]

ok so to be clear, if it was set up with timing dot to to with rotor set to number1, then I'm 180degrees off and if I switch the wires (meaning put number 6 wire on number 1 plug, 5 on 2, 4 on 3, etc), it should start? Am I understanding correctly?


Dana44 I see you have a mini, I also have one of those, my wifes is an 05 mini S with the paddle shifters, just got through having the 6 sp auto rebuilt to the tune of about $3500.

 

[dana44]

100 percent correct. Simple explaination, timing marks on the crank and cam sprockets set the valves on the exhaust stroke and I spent 30 years building engines without realizing this, always thinking thee plug wires were correct, then realizing they were 180 degrees off each and every time, so, dots line up, set the rotor opposite the number 1 sparkplug and she fires first time every time.

 

[68RT]

If you have a valve cover off, the valves on the firing cylinder will not move for the last half of the crank rotation (in normal rotation) The one that is opposite the firing cylinder will be closing the exhaust valve. /6 you would be looking at either number one or number six. on a Mopar V-8, you would also be looking at number one and number 6.

 

[bpitts]

Sure enough Dana 44, it started, now putting on an aftermarket oil pressure guage. I was thinking that I could take out that bolt underneath the oil filter that faces toward the back and put the fitting in there but the kit I got doesn't have a fitting that big. Am I trying to put it in the wrong place ? I'm glad there are guys like you to help guys like me.

 

[dana44]

There should be an oil pressure sending unit you can replace, it looks like a barrel about double the size of a walnut, replace it with that. Please, don't use the oil pressure gauge that has a white nylon hose on it, they tend to melt and you lose the engine in the process. I recommend using an electric sending unit, just as accurate and you never have to worry about leaking oil anywhere. For a mechanical oil pressure unit, if going that route, go to a hydraulic hose building store (Cat, Diesel, Case, a heavy duty place), and get a line with the proper fittings made for it. Expensive, but she won't leak or melt.

Glad to hear she started right up.

 

[Volunteer]

- - an 05 mini S with the paddle shifters, just got through having the 6 sp auto rebuilt to the tune of about $3500.

And people ask me why I am driving a 36 yr. old truck and a 44 yr. old car. :frusty:

Glad to hear the engine is now in and running. When I re-installed my own a couple weeks ago, it took only 45 minutes from eng. stand to mating with bell-housing. I work alone and take extra precautions. The perennial delays occur from constantly 'indexing' the engine and tranny and having to simultaneously raise or lower them to clear brackets, tunnel and then of course having engine at proper angle to mate to tranny. It is all good fun. :excited:
Oh, and I had previously rigged-up a (manual) oil gage last October before pulling engine. I used a T-fitting coming out of the (huge) 3/8" ? hole in the back of the pump so I could retain the idiot lite. The line I used was the OEM 1/8" steel with rubber (neoprene?) coating as found on older Generic Motors pickups - at least that is where mine came from. I used one section to hole in firewall and another, with couple of coils, neatly along engine side of f-wall and then gently onto back of pump fittings. I only want this setup to use for a good cross-section of the full range of pressure. THEN, as dana44 suggested, it will be a switch to electric gage - once I can find an affordable one. I like to keep the lite working because this is the FIRST thing you notice when a low pressure condition arises - especially at nite.