[Morty]

Fiat doesn't cut it.....Never really did outside Italy.

Bollocs!

 

[Morty]

AS far as the Alfa engine.....Gee the Chrysler/Rootes Hillman Hunter GT/Hustler/Royal 660 1725cc 4, made 94bhp and 109 ft lbs.....in 1971, and that was with twin Strommies!

And my Alfa GT Junior 1.3 did 103hp in 1966. Get a grip.
Edit, and my next Alfa was a 1970 1750 with, if l remember correctly had 133hp.

 

[MPE426HEMI]

They need a small car asap, so hopefully it arrives first as a Dodge (i.e. the Dart's replacement). And they are smart to call it a Neon...they need some name/model recognition. Makes sense if they start it as a Chrysler 100 at the same time (or within a quarter or so), that way production numbers will be higher in total and you spread out costs.

We just had a modern day Neon called the Dart and it didn't sell. They'd be foolish to do that again. It would fit better with Chrysler.

 

[Bigun426]

The sedan, hatch and wagon should be offered as Chryslers and the hatch could double as a SRT Dodge.

 

[jken02]

We just had a modern day Neon called the Dart and it didn't sell. They'd be foolish to do that again. It would fit better with Chrysler.

Yep, but they didn't do a very good job executing the Dart...so I don't think they'd be foolish at all to not give up. They can't just walk away from the small car segment...that would be idiotic. You need to provide something from the entry-level buyer. You need to hook them young (or when they don't have a lot of money).

The FCA guys just have to engineer a better car. I owned a 2000 Neon and test drove the current Dart....no one ever hit their head getting into my Neon's rear seat. Before I drove the Dart, I set the front seat as I like it and then got out and got in the back seat right behind the driver seat. I had to be careful to not hit my head getting in and once in the back seat, my head touched the ceiling/headliner. Same goes in the current 200...no rear seat headroom. It's unacceptable. Who's going to buy a new car when rear passengers can't fit? Either the entire engineering team is 5' 6" or they just didn't take the time to pay attention to the interior dimensions while designing the car.

My Dad drives a 2015 Ford Fusion which is about the same height as the Dart...per spec about a half inch taller than the Dart. Yet Ford engineered that roofline and rear headliner so its sculpted-out interior shape actually works. When I sit in his Fusion, I'm probably an inch or so from the ceiling. Acceptable.

As for a better fit with only Chrysler, I disagree. Honda has the Civic and Acura ILX, pretty much the same car...Acura is just the upscale version. Why not do that with the new Dart/Tipo? If Dodge is the performance line, you make an entry, mid and performance version of the new Tipo/Dart. Then make the upscale/luxury version the Chrysler 100.

 

[MPE426HEMI]

I agree that they should have a car this size in the segment and they will, just from somewhere else. And I definately agree with a botched Dart launch along with complaints of reviewers touting poor fuel milage before I even got to see one in person. I guess they really need the space for trucks, Jeeps and CUV's more.
I'd say building it for Dodge, people would take it just as a warmed over Dart. I couldn't even get somebody to go look at the Dart, they're only reply was, "it's just a neon."

 

[Archknight]

As for a better fit with only Chrysler, I disagree. Honda has the Civic and Acura ILX, pretty much the same car...Acura is just the upscale version. Why not do that with the new Dart/Tipo? If Dodge is the performance line, you make an entry, mid and performance version of the new Tipo/Dart. Then make the upscale/luxury version the Chrysler 100.

A lot of people here would agree with you I think, but unfortunately FCA took the stance that Chrysler was not a premium brand and was to go mainstream.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

The problem with fuel economy is that FPT did not really have powertrains ready to be adapted for the NAFTA market that would deliver great fuel economy compared to the competition.

Ford, especially, did a great job creating a lineup of powertrains that delivered decent performance and fuel economy.

The powertrains that FCA are working on will make them competitive......will it give them an advantage? That remains to be seen.

 

[suzq044]

Hopefully they won't be behind again when they finally come out. Because the gods know that'd be our luck. lol

FCA: Finally starts production on the 4's we're waiting on..
Competition: Releases scheduled engine upgrade that is [somehow] better, making the behind-schedule FCA engine seem kind of .. lacking.

 

[73PlymouthDuster]

The actual size is almost right smack in the middle between the Corolla and the Versa.

The exterior dimensions are most similar to a Civic in width, but Civic has more length.

Mike

Yeah, you beat me to it.... Mike is right. The Tipo/Neon is a bit small to compete with USA compacts currently on the market.
The new Neon would be better suited battling the Versa and Sonic instead of the Sentra and Civic based on its published dimensions.

 

[Mike V.]

Yeah, you beat me to it.... Mike is right. The Tipo/Neon is a bit small to compete with USA compacts currently on the market.
The new Neon would be better suited battling the Versa and Sonic instead of the Sentra and Civic based on its published dimensions.

Well that is not what I said.

I whole heartedly disagree with you, the Tipo could make a good mainstream Chrysler compact because it is a true compact and is not big like the rest of the competition (where the Dart went wrong according to many people here, including you IIRC).

Will it outsell the Corolla or Civic? Absolutely not, but it doesn't have to and it could be credible compact if added to the Chrysler lineup with relatively little investment and sales expectations can be much lower in the US because of combined global sales. In other words, it doesn't need to rely on American sales alone to be a profitable vehicle.

Mike

 

[james.mooney.]

^^This^^

 

[Archknight]

The problem I see with the Neon/Tipo is it is smaller than all the current compacts on the market. It's wheelbase (103.8"), which doesn't allow for much space, is more inclined to meet a modern subcompacts than the current 106.3" wheelbase (Dart) at which most of the new compacts are built on. With that being said, in the US market it would not compete well with those products and be dismissed based on space.

The Dart failed because of a botched launch, interior color choices, and poor fuel economy for a compact car. Not to mention it was the culmination of available tech at the time, so FIAT could have a 40 mpg model to buy the rest of Chrysler. Knowing that the US is a fickle market, they would have to under promise and over deliver to gain some conquest sales from other brands. Look at the underdogs Hyundai and KIA, their products don't offer best in class on anything, but the feature content and warranty make a valid case for a customer to make the purchase. FCA has so many better features they can employ on a vehicle and use Alfa's Giuletta experience to build better FWD models that are more dynamic.

When you're not using the experience of each of your branches to your advantage, you're setting yourself up for failure. To truly compete they have to look beyond their immediate competition and benchmark vehicles above the class they are competing in. They really need a shot at redemption, but it's not going to happen when the CEO isn't backing the product and shifting blame to his staff.

 

[Mike V.]

The problem I see with the Neon/Tipo is it is smaller than all the current compacts on the market. It's wheelbase (103.8"), which doesn't allow for much space, is more inclined to meet a modern subcompacts than the current 106.3" wheelbase (Dart) at which most of the new compacts are built on. With that being said, in the US market it would not compete well with those products and be dismissed based on space.

The Dart failed because of a botched launch, interior color choices, and poor fuel economy for a compact car. Not to mention it was the culmination of available tech at the time, so FIAT could have a 40 mpg model to buy the rest of Chrysler. Knowing that the US is a fickle market, they would have to under promise and over deliver to gain some conquest sales from other brands. Look at the underdogs Hyundai and KIA, their products don't offer best in class on anything, but the feature content and warranty make a valid case for a customer to make the purchase. FCA has so many better features they can employ on a vehicle and use Alfa's Giuletta experience to build better FWD models that are more dynamic.

When you're not using the experience of each of your branches to your advantage, you're setting yourself up for failure. To truly compete they have to look beyond their immediate competition and benchmark vehicles above the class they are competing in. They really need a shot at redemption, but it's not going to happen when the CEO isn't backing the product and shifting blame to his staff.

But but but Dart is too big and too fat

The Nissan Versa is on track to sell over 150,000 units this year. Something between Versa and Corolla could do quite well.

Mike

 

[T_690]

Wheelbase length != interior space
Yes, it could show us potential of interior space but it don't show us possible packaging constraints or advantages of some platform. And what I saw is that SUSW is more space efficient compared to CUSW.

 

[TripleT]

Yeah, you beat me to it.... Mike is right. The Tipo/Neon is a bit small to compete with USA compacts currently on the market.
The new Neon would be better suited battling the Versa and Sonic instead of the Sentra and Civic based on its published dimensions.

It's bigger than those very close to a focus

 

[Archknight]

It's bigger than those very close to a focus

Unfortunately, the Focus is up for a redesign, which is said to be wider and longer than the current model. Mike is right though, if they play this Neon as a large subcompact it could probably gain some traction. I always refer to them stretching the SUSW platform and building a true modern compact.

 

[TripleT]

I say keep it small they Dart being big and heavy was a error

 

[james.mooney.]

In the 2014 product plan, Dodge was to get a B-segment sedan and hatch in 2018, and the Chrysler 100 and a new Dart were to debut in 2016. I always assumed that the 100 would be based on the Tipo and the Dodge subcompacts would be based on the next Punto, but I suppose it is possible that the intention was to restyle the Tipo sedan and hatch as Dodges and market them as subcompacts, redesign the Dart as a Chrysler 100, and replace the Dart with a Giulia-based sedan...

 

[Mopartial]

I'd like to know what Fiat, the brand, has planned for N.A. If they're not going to abandon N,A. market, why not badge it a Fiat and add it to the Fiat line and boost the brand here? Yes, the Chrysler brand does need a new vehicle, but not just anything that's available.