[Robert Johnson]

Rear drum brakes and no IRS? It's been about the 90s since I last had a car with rear drum brakes

A fairly decent amount of small cars sold in the US have rear drum brakes. For a small and light economy car there is a not really a need for them as the drums work just fine. Cars that receive very favorable reviews like the Honda Fit have them for example.

 

[Dave Z]

Yup. As long as they are Japanese nobody will call out the drums.

 

[Robert Johnson]

For any brand FWD economy car with 55-60% of vehicle weight over the front wheels drum brakes are just fine. Bigger heavier and sports cars are a different matter of course. Most small cars will stop better with better/bigger than factory tires. Discs have better fade resistance and heat dissipation but again, unless the car is a Fiesta ST etc, drums are just fine.

 

[Mike V.]

For any brand FWD economy car with 55-60% of vehicle weight over the front wheels drum brakes are just fine. Bigger heavier and sports cars are a different matter of course. Most small cars will stop better with better/bigger than factory tires. Discs have better fade resistance and heat dissipation but again, unless the car is a Fiesta ST etc, drums are just fine.

True... But, no company in their right mind will sell a new car with drum brakes on the front.

Mike

 

[Robert Johnson]

True... But, no company in their right mind will sell a new car with drum brakes on the front.

Mike

I did not mean drums in the front of FWD cars, just in the back.

 

[Mike V.]

I did not mean drums in the front of FWD cars, just in the back.

Ok, we agree.

Mike

 

[KrisW]

Tipos with higher-output engines get disc brakes all-round.

 

[T_690]

Tipos with higher-output engines get disc brakes all-round.

And all hatch and SW Tipos have disc brakes at the back.

 

[Muther]

I have yet to drive a car with rear drum brakes (front disc), that had ABS, where the ABS actually worked.

ABS and drum brakes simply don't work, it is almost worse than no ABS.

 

[jerseyjoe]

Wet drum brakes don't work.

 

[Robert Johnson]

"While a "yes" answer would certainly be great for increasing Town Hall traffic, the truth is that today's disc/drum setups are completely adequate for the majority of new cars. Remember that both disc and drum brake design has been vastly improved in the last 20 years. In fact, the current rear drum brake systems on today's cars would provide better stopping performance then the front disc setups of the '70s. And today's front disc brakes are truly exceptional in terms of stopping power. Combined with the fact that between 60 and 90 percent of a vehicle's stopping power comes from the front wheels, it's clear that a well-designed, modern drum brake is all that's required for most rear wheel brake duty."

Brakes: Drum vs. Disc

 

[Muther]

"While a "yes" answer would certainly be great for increasing Town Hall traffic, the truth is that today's disc/drum setups are completely adequate for the majority of new cars. Remember that both disc and drum brake design has been vastly improved in the last 20 years. In fact, the current rear drum brake systems on today's cars would provide better stopping performance then the front disc setups of the '70s. And today's front disc brakes are truly exceptional in terms of stopping power. Combined with the fact that between 60 and 90 percent of a vehicle's stopping power comes from the front wheels, it's clear that a well-designed, modern drum brake is all that's required for most rear wheel brake duty."

Brakes: Drum vs. Disc

Be that as it may, I am not doubting you at all...

I will never own a car with any sort of drum brakes. It is disc only for me. Getting ABS to work with drum brakes (relative to my experience) is like trying to drive a brood sow.

There are just...

a lot of things I'd rather be doing.

Maybe its me, but I never could get her to do anything I wanted her to do. Same with ABS and drums.

 

[Rick Anderson]

The 1.4L Turbo doesn't require premium fuel. It just does best on it.
Dart user manual:

The DOHC 1st Gen Neons were the same. Could run on 87Octane but 91Octane was recommended for full power.

Turbo is simpler, part of the PCM programming looks for clues that 87octane is being used, like ping and detonation, then it just dials back the boost for 87octane.

The DOHC 1st Gen Neon PCM does the same, just switches to another ignition map if the ping/detonation indicates 87Octane is being used. No, its NOT the same as all ping sensor and retarding ignition. Every car will retard ignition if it senses pinging, for a few minutes. The DOHC 1st Gen Neon actually switch to another tune the rest of the drive, and it was more sensitive to pinging in the more aggressive mode for 91 octane, than most cars.

And plenty of DOHC owners found they got a little better mileage with 87octane than with 91 octane.

 

[suzq044]

pff, for all the neon knowledge I have, I did not know they were recommended for 91oct.

 

[Rick Anderson]

pff, for all the neon knowledge I have, I did not know they were recommended for 91oct.

I had a '99 DOHC R/T, so I'm NOT sure if it was the later DOHC or just the R/T's that did have a different PCM than the rest (for at least a higher top speed since it came with higher speed rated tires). So I know for a fact the later DOHC R/T's recommended 91Octane for full power, but 87Octane could be used. That might NOT be true of non-R/T's or all DOHC's.

 

[valiant67]

All DOHC Neon engines recommend the higher octane for best performance. ACR and maybe R/T changed the speed limiter over the lesser models.

 

[suzq044]

I had a '99 DOHC R/T, so I'm NOT sure if it was the later DOHC or just the R/T's that did have a different PCM than the rest (for at least a higher top speed since it came with higher speed rated tires). So I know for a fact the later DOHC R/T's recommended 91Octane for full power, but 87Octane could be used. That might NOT be true of non-R/T's or all DOHC's.

I had a 95 acr and a 98 sport. Both were dohc.

 

[Rick Anderson]

Yea, the R/T trim wasn't available till '98, and it did have a different PCM than the rest of the Neon's. At the very least the different PCM added a higher top speed cause of the OEM higher speed rated tires. It might have been the 91octane for more power thing might have just been the DOHC R/T's. Or you missed that feature in the O.M. of your '98 sport, cause I do remember reading exactly the same as posted in my '99 R/T O.M.