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Discussion Starter #1
US new-vehicle auto sales are out.

Here is an interesting trend: sales of luxury brands have been gaining on non-luxury makes.

Keep in mind these are at the aggregate-brand level; it does not take into account the fact, for instance, that a top-of-the-line Ram 1500, Raptor or Wrangler can cost well over $65,000. My guess is if we were to break sales out by price, this shift would be even more dramatic

Feel free to speculate as to what is driving this shift.
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These are US new-vehicle sales by make; includes fleet sales.

Ford continues to show the ongoing erosion from the day Mr. Mulally left the building and which cost Mark Fields its job. We see a similar trend in consumer opinion and purchase intentions (i.e., demand), as well as Ford's stock prices.

Toyota sales show a very slight gain, but appear to be widening their lead over Chevrolet. Honda is holding its own despite recent quality issues with airbags, 9-speed automatic transmission and significant declines in durability rankings.

You can see Nissan's precipitous decline. Under Mr. Ghosn, Nissan had been selling well above market demand by about one-third to one-half in excess of demand, according to our estimates. That is a significant amount of sales that need to be adjusted down.

Jeep is FCA's top-selling brand in the US but it looks flat; Ram on the other hand shows sustained growth. Dodge's rate of decline appears to be accelerating, perhaps due to the accelerated shift from car to truck sales.

VW sales show slow but sustained growth. The redesigned Tiguan and all-new Atlas have been home runs. To build on previous successes, there is now a new ID.4 and Atlas Cross Sport.

Overall, Kia appears to be doing slightly better than Hyundai.

Subaru continues to show slow but sustained growth thanks to its renewed focus on Safety and Durability.

Fiat sales are becoming un-measurable.


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If I had to guess: I would say that the entry level for lux brands has not changed much, while medium-large mainstream brand SUVs have been shooting up in price. That is supported by the increase in average transaction prices for brands which have a great deal of large-SUV sales, e.g. Ford, Jeep, Chevrolet, GMC. Those without such sales (Toyota, Honda) tend to have lower transaction prices.

The gap in price for sedans is massive, but for medium to large SUVs, it's much smaller. As SUVs get more mainstream, and the lux brands adopt them at all price levels, I think they will keep doing well.

Also, Nissan’s failure probably plays a role, as does FCA's decision to cut its mainstream model count and only play in premium niches (to the best of its ability).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
True, the demise of the sedan appears to have happened more quickly in non-luxury than in luxury.

I agree with your observation that the luxury-non luxury gap is wider in cars than in trucks. I wonder what this means, thuugh, for weaker brands like Dodge when it tries to sell a Durango that is priced within earshot of an Acura MDX or a Mercedes.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Here are luxury sales.

Tesla is about to join the luxury Big 3 --Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus.

Nissan's slump has impacted Infiniti, too.

Genesis sales have stabiliized following a stormy launch

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Yes, I agree that the mainstream is now playing in the lower levels of the luxury brands.

So, a customer asks themselves if they want to spend almost $70,000 on a loaded Grand Cherokee, which is currently riding on a 10 year old platform or a Range Rover Sport.

I wonder if our salespeople can chime in, like @CDJSalesPro. Do they see as much cross shopping into luxury as they did in the past with Grand Cherokee?
 

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Mitsubishi still sells here? Haven't seen one on the roads in years and any dealerships it had have been closed for longer than I can remember.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes, I agree that the mainstream is now playing in the lower levels of the luxury brands.

So, a customer asks themselves if they want to spend almost $70,000 on a loaded Grand Cherokee, which is currently riding on a 10 year old platform or a Range Rover Sport.

I wonder if our salespeople can chime in, like @CDJSalesPro. Do they see as much cross shopping into luxury as they did in the past with Grand Cherokee?
I do see a fair number of Audi, BMW. Lexus and Porsche owners in the Wrangler forums, but I attributed it to Wrangler being such a unique vehicle.

IMO, the challenge the all-new Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer are going to face is that they will come with luxury-like prices but without the luxury-like customer service.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Lexota is NOT MB or BMW. Its walmart luxury
That is your opinion. The fact is that in the US, Lexus sales have been matching and many times exceeding those of MB or BMW. It is the only brand to do so. Audi tried but never quite got there.
 

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You've cemented my post. Just because Walmart is the biggest, it surely isn't the best. Lexota will always be a vinyl top toyota...second tier.
The data does not support your statement. If you look at the chart above, Lexus holds a 2% market share; pretty good for luxury but hardly Walmart volume.

Consumers' opinion of Lexus brand is on par with that of Mercedes and BMW. Lexus consistently leads in customer service, in reliability, fit and finish and durability, in resale, in dealer satisfaction, in profitability, and is one of the top 3 selling luxury brands. None of these are characteristics of a second tier brand.

Whatever your reason may be for thinking that Lexus is a second tier luxury brand, is not reflected by the reality of the market.
 

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That is your opinion. The fact is that in the US, Lexus sales have been matching and many times exceeding those of MB or BMW. It is the only brand to do so. Audi tried but never quite got there.
I'm still waiting for Lexus with unibody longitudinal engine platform which can beat European offering.
 

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I'm still waiting for Lexus with unibody longitudinal engine platform which can beat European offering.
Lexus has been beating European luxury brands for 30 years. The only two brands that can stand up to Lexus in N.A. are Mercedes and BMW, that is it. Audi tried to unseat Lexus and failed. Alfa Romeo, Jaguar, Land Rover, etc., play on the margins.

Personally, I don't find Lexus vehicules particularly attractive or fun. But I won't let that cloud the reality of the market.
 

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I love to troll the Walmart shoppers
Perhaps you need to read the forum rules. Allpar is not a place for your type of posts. If you can backup what you say with data, then you have credibility. If you offer opinion, write is as "My opinion"

@aldo90731 has decades of experience working with the auto industry as an analyst. He worked for JD Power and other companies. The big auto manufacturers pay for Aldo's market analysis that is done in a non-biased way.

Who pays you for your auto opinion?
 

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If this is allpar forum, why are we discussing cheap overrated Japanese brand vehicles then?
This section of the forum is for "Discussions about non-Chrysler automakers and the auto industry in general". So, this is the perfect place to have this discussion. If you don't want to discuss other automakers, then maybe you should avoid this section of the forum. ;)
 

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Only reason Lexota has high customer ratings, is that the sales person selling the vehicle, fills out the surveys for satisfaction. And it's a known fact that they get favorable reviews from the press due to having their vehicle debuts at 5 star venues. I actually talked to a scribe from Autowerks and although he wasn't impressed with the design, and performance of a new Lexota they just came out with, he was going to fawn over it just to get invited back for the free weekend of pampering. So more BS on your vinyl top toyota
Proof? Does the person take their computer to the dealer? You know they aren’t putting surveys in the USPS mail much any more.
 
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I'm still waiting for Lexus with unibody longitudinal engine platform which can beat European offering.
Who cares about such specific demands? Lexus succeeded where Alfa Romeo failed. They had best in class quality for years, best in class dealer experiences, and, frankly, if you're into quiet interiors, great rides, and fast acceleration, best in class cars. The original ES made a mockery of any Mercedes.
 

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Toyota enjoys tremendous brand loyalty, so why should it be surprising that their luxury brand should enjoy the same? If customers enjoy the Toyota “experience”, then it would make sense that they would seek a Lexus when moving up to a luxury brand, IMO. My SIL has an older Lexus (es 350 maybe?) that she’s had for a long time, she‘s put a ton of miles on it. To me, it’s as bland as bland gets...but for her it’s been a great car. I too am not a big fan of Lexus, but you can’t argue with their success.

I’m not a troll...maybe more of an ogre? Perhaps an Orc more so than a goblin....
 

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Take a look at the figures. Luxury up 2.3% Tesla market share from nothing to near 2%. Without Tesla there is no statistically significant shift.
 
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