[chilibowl]

Hello fellow ALLPAR devotees.

Been along while since I posted , especially about my 84 2.2 Reliant .


Just replaced my Valve cover gasket w/ a FELPRO "permadry-plus" unit.

tried to do everything meticolous,clean ,etc.



Trouble IS ,dang thing still leaks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oil is smoking onto the Exhaust/Intake Manifold on this P.O.S. .

I even had No-leaks stop leak in the oil change.



The only area I think It maY HAVE LEAKED is the AIR VENT breather box that houses the PCV valve.

-----this is one STRANGE PART ----- a little hard plastic BOX that Hooks /slips into a special hole on the BACK of the Valve cover.

Plus the Hole where it slips onto the Valve Cover , uses a Special Rubber /VYnal grommet the seal the interface. I suspect its oozing from there.


Anyone here ever have this Maddening experience?????



I have replaced many valve covers gaskets ,differenet makes/mfrs----this is just soo embarrassing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

adios ,STU

 

[Bob Lincoln]

If it's leaking at that PCV box, then definitely change the o-ring that seals to the valve cover. Also, have you checked the PCV and breather hoses for cracks or looseness?

 

[B10alia]

You might consider upgrading to a cast valve cover if you can get a hold of one. The stamped steel covers are notorious for leaking and Chrysler themselves had a bit of a time trying to get them to seal right. The cast cover also doesn't use this plastic box arrangement. You should replace any gaskets and hoses that connect to the valve cover (including the breather hose on the driver's side. Don't bother paying a ridiculous amount of money for the molded part from Chrysler, just use regular old emissions hose, which you can get at any automotive store). This area is subject to high heat and even the most resistant rubber will harden and crack eventually. If this doesn't help, go back to looking at the cover. Look for oil tracks, oil grabs a hold of dirt and sticks there, so you'll see a dirty line. Wipe the line off and then re-check it in a week or so, if you see another track, that's your problem point.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

I don't have any problems sealing the stamped steel valve cover. But the two methods that work best are either cork gaskets for the long side, glued in place with Indian Head shellac, and rubber end pieces; or simply RTV on the long sides, and rubber end pieces. The Felpro Permadry plus gasket looks great, but those aluminum rails with rubber trim just don't seal as well they advertise.

 

[valiant67]

Later steel valve covers were redesigned as well for a better seal. No idea of the year that happened.

 

[135SoHc]

Cast cover, end of discussion.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Later steel valve covers were redesigned as well for a better seal. No idea of the year that happened.

That was 1994 or 1995. I had no problems with any vintage, have owned 1985, 1992, 1993.

 

[John Wood]

I use a cheap gasket, throw away the cork, use the rubber end pieces and RTV the long rails. I'll let it sit overnight and then torque the bolts just a little in the morning (like 1/8 or 1/4 turn). The trick is not to torque them too much when the RTV is wet or you squeeze it all out.

Also to OP, check that your front cam seal is not leaking and oozing out on the passenger side rear. I had that happen and thought it was the VC gasket since the smear of oil was in the corner around the VC seam and getting on the exhaust manifold (and smoking).

I never had good luck with that expensive 2.2/2.5 permadry single piece gasket and once they get hot, it is tough to get them off and re-use them. It is a good idea, but I never had good success with it.

I remember that PCV plastic arrangement. I think that can be eliminated with an emissions hose elbow. There should be a restrictor orifice inside the VC for that opening. EDIT: Is this the old style that has the rubber grommet?

 

[chilibowl]

I don't have any problems sealing the stamped steel valve cover. But the two methods that work best are either cork gaskets for the long side, glued in place with Indian Head shellac, and rubber end pieces; or simply RTV on the long sides, and rubber end pieces. The Felpro Permadry plus gasket looks great, but those aluminum rails with rubber trim just don't seal as well they advertise.

I use a cheap gasket, throw away the cork, use the rubber end pieces and RTV the long rails. I'll let it sit overnight and then torque the bolts just a little in the morning (like 1/8 or 1/4 turn). The trick is not to torque them too much when the RTV is wet or you squeeze it all out.

Also to OP, check that your front cam seal is not leaking and oozing out on the passenger side rear. I had that happen and thought it was the VC gasket since the smear of oil was in the corner around the VC seam and getting on the exhaust manifold (and smoking).

I never had good luck with that expensive 2.2/2.5 permadry single piece gasket and once they get hot, it is tough to get them off and re-use them. It is a good idea, but I never had good success with it.

I remember that PCV plastic arrangement. I think that can be eliminated with an emissions hose elbow. There should be a restrictor orifice inside the VC for that opening. EDIT: Is this the old style that has the rubber grommet?

- OH YES it is ,that old Style with Rubber Grommet !!!!!!! -pos for sure ----


CAMSHAFT SEAL ????? -ouch !!!!! now thats a job !!!!!! -- regards ,stu

 

[tandynor]

where do you get a cast cover? and what year to look for?I have the 2.2 non urbo engine. thanks

 

[B10alia]

Cast cover was stock on the '95 Spirit, and possibly the '94 models. All turbos that I've seen have a cast cover. You can find them on eBay from time to time. A cover from a 2.5 will fit a 2.5. The heads are dimensionally the same. If you can't find a cast cover, I believe the stamped cover was incrementally upgraded to try and stop the leaking. That being said, the cast cover is far and away the better cover because it seals with a one-piece o-ring style gasket.

 

[tandynor]

I found one at the junk yard off a mfg date 7/94 dodge spirit. Took the bolts too. What's a good way to wash it down and get the gasket residue out of the grooves?

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Carb or EFI cleaner, lots of rags or paper towels, scrape with a putty knife.

 

[John Wood]

In addition to the above, I've used a Dremmel tool with the small SS or carbon wire circular brush. They make a wheel and a cup wire brush for the tool. These work pretty good when you have already removed the thicker stuff. Also course Scotch Brite pads (or equavalent) will help speed up the cleaning process.

Use compressed air to insure all wire wheel broken wire pieces have been removed.

 

[chilibowl]

I use a cheap gasket, throw away the cork, use the rubber end pieces and RTV the long rails. I'll let it sit overnight and then torque the bolts just a little in the morning (like 1/8 or 1/4 turn). The trick is not to torque them too much when the RTV is wet or you squeeze it all out.

Also to OP, check that your front cam seal is not leaking and oozing out on the passenger side rear. I had that happen and thought it was the VC gasket since the smear of oil was in the corner around the VC seam and getting on the exhaust manifold (and smoking).

I never had good luck with that expensive 2.2/2.5 permadry single piece gasket and once they get hot, it is tough to get them off and re-use them. It is a good idea, but I never had good success with it.

I remember that PCV plastic arrangement. I think that can be eliminated with an emissions hose elbow. There should be a restrictor orifice inside the VC for that opening. EDIT: Is this the old style that has the rubber grommet?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES the old style with Funny Grommet ,what a stupid design from MOPAR, what where they thinking???? I called alocal Chrysler Dealer & they cannot get this part ,hmmm. I was thinking of finding Some Sort of Industrial Surplus gasket Grommet to go in place of that Distorted Old Grommet , By-the -way , John Wood Sir, the Hole in the valve cover on that 2.2 is NOT a perfect circle ,it has 4 - slots set in a cross hair pattern ,so the Sillly PCV breather Box/module ,gets Locked in Place when you twist it in Correctly. Very Frustrating.

I picked up a Valve COVER from a 2.5 TBI Reliant from a Boneyard for 9.00$ , Am I going to have clearance problems putting this one Later year / Design Valve cover in place of the Lumpy Looking 2.2 Valve Cover????????,, Bolt Holes SEEM to be same layout , just wondering about the FUEL LINES going over the VC!!!,

Regards ,STU

 

[John Wood]

I vaguely remember that twist in PCV setup. I wonder if it is possible to cut the fuel line with a tubing cutter and just splice in a section of 5/16" fuel line. Maybe that will give the needed clearance (assuming there will be clearance issues). Those old early EEKs with the carb setup, front mechanical fuel pump, emissions air pump, spark control computer, etc. were a real PITA to work on. 15 years ago, the self serve bone yard had these lined up like a used car lot. Now you never see them. I swear, the TBI setups in later years was the best thing Chrysler did to these EEK cars. It makes working on them so much easier with all that junk out of the way.

EDIT: I was just looking at a picture of the old style valve cover. The oil fill opening is quite a bit more to the driver's side and I suspect that the fuel line will conflict with the oil cap on the new style. Is that PCV module still usable on your old setup? If so, can you just clean it and seal it to the old VC. Maybe you can J&B weld (epoxy) it on there.

 

[B10alia]

In terms of internal clearances, you should be all set. The heads are identical across both the 2.2 and 2.5 and all model years, the difference is in the combustion chambers, which the cover doesn't particularly care about. I don't think the oil fill cap should be a problem, there really isn't any reason (that I can see) for it to be that far over. If you look at the picture of that blue engine on the 2.2 page, the fuel lines take up about an inch of space, maybe a little more. The fill cap is set quite a bit more inboard than that even on the later covers.

 

[John Wood]

I found a little write-up with pictures that shows the old 2.2 PCV module and the valve cover. It almost looks like a 2nd hose (the breather?) is also attached to the module. Installing the new cover might take even more modifications than first meets the eye.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c15280215d04

Linking picture (if it works)

 

[John Wood]

Here is another picture: It looks like the breather hose goes into an opening on the back of the air box. It would take a bit to route the breather from a new valve cover to this location.

EDIT: The PCV module part# is 4201993 and it is available in the aftermarket as Standard BF21 or Airtex/Wells 7F1010 (Rock Auto).. The formed hose part# is 4343637 and can probably be purchased from a dealer or in the aftermarket.

Here is a link to the Rock Auto picture:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=945218

 

[B10alia]

I would just go with the EFI setup. The PCV setup for the carb seems to be kind of boneheaded. There is a breather nipple on the driver's side of the valve cover for the EFI setup, just run your hose to that. Worst comes to worst, go get the EFI airbox and put that on in place of the carbed airbox. I don't see why it wouldn't fit, since the Reliant used EFI in its later years, and the airbox is bigger, which should help remove some restriction from the intake system. Either way, the formed hose is a waste of money, regular emissions hose will work just fine and won't run you $40+ for something that will need to be replaced in a few years.