[MoparNorm]

I do (Well, the Yukon, but same latitude) and, for basically every month save July, you have to warm those things up. It's always fun when glow plugs and block heaters don't cut it and you need to crawl under an '08 F250 with a tiger torch and a length of heating conduit to defrost the block.

Comparing a Cummins powered Dodge Ram to an F250, is compaing apples to worms...
Besides,, you only have 45 days per year of what most people consider "summer". :lol:

 

[neebs22]

Totally speculation, but what are the chances of Chrysler/Fiat performing a similar buyout with Cummins and turning them collectively into an in-house diesel development company?

Cummins is a massive company that doesn't even blink at the paltry revenue they make from selling 6.7L engines to Ram...

 

[tomtex]

I wonder what the MPG in a wrangler will be, with this VM diesel engine?

 

[MoparNorm]

I wonder what the MPG in a wrangler will be, with this VM diesel engine?

That engine achieves 34 mpg in the Grand Cherokee.
Gearing, aerodynamics, tire size and other factors will make it less than that in the Wrangler, but still exceptional compared to the current gas motor mpg.
Today in SoCal diesel is $4.09, regular is $4.35, premium is $4.55.
44 cents per gallon and 35% better fuel economy.
Low 30's to high 20's would be my guess.

 

[Dave Z]

 

[Dave Z]

Yes. I wonder if they will finally give up the folding windshield; if they do it, they do it forever, I believe.

 

[Dave Z]

"With Android 4.0, Google created a clean slate"

You mean, after copying IOS for three versions?

I could argue it both ways. Giving people familiar forms can help their productivity. Just ask anyone who tried to use Quark vs Pagemaker back in the early days. Or a Mac vs Windows 1.0... the desktop metaphor really helped. Eventually, as you say, you can take those forms away.

I do not think Wrangler is the vehicle to take forms into the future. A huge part of its charm is the legacy feel. That's why it has old fashioned door handles on the outside... as the PT did. There is no good reason to use that design today other than the feel.

You might be right regarding the automatic shifter. I don't think you're right regarding the 4x4 controls. However, moving the shifter off the floor is pointless in a car with a manual transmission version.

 

[Jeepnut]

Yes. I wonder if they will finally give up the folding windshield; if they do it, they do it forever, I believe.

I really believe the folding windshield is going away. IIRC the AEV heat reduction hood on the JK doesn't allow for the windshield to fold because according to their info most owners just don't do it any more. personally as long as the Wrangler retains it's BOF, solid axles, and removable doors I'm happy.

 

[MoparNorm]

.....also pointless when a "feature" adds additional failure modes to an already fragile system.

Amen! I will say that the dependability of the manual transfer case shift is vastly improved on JK. The shifter is a short throw shifter that takes up little space and Wrangler has a center consol, so moving it to another location serves no space saving purpose at all.
Going to a shift knob or paddles on a Wrangler is liable to get some people killed, you need the traditional location for a familiar shift location at times when the eyes must stay on the trail and hitting the correct gear is critical.
I want a shift lever that comes up to meet my hand, not a knob that must be searched for...
The only change Wrangler needs is a full time option, a Hemi and diesel engine option and a 3 speed transfer case option.
Possibly a heavier duty axle option.
They can't satisfy demand as it is and it's not broke, so no need to waste resources "fixing" much.

 

[guyverfanboy]

I wonder what the MPG in a wrangler will be, with this VM diesel engine?

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wrangler Unlimited diesels


On the road, the Italian 3.0-liter V6 CRD in the Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 from the Jefferson North plant in Detroit is as smooth as butter. The 237 horsepower is, of course, fine. But it's the 406 pound-feet of torque between 1,800 and 2,800 rpm that gets our juices flowing. For one thing, the 3.0 CRD can accelerate a Grand Cherokee 4x4 to 60 mph in just 8.0 seconds, which is darned close to the estimated time for the 5.7-liter V8. It also has the same 7,700-plus pound towing capacity. EPA numbers would need to be run certainly, but by our conversion, the 3.0 CRD should be capable of 22 mpg city and 32 mpg highway. That's a far cry from the 16/22 mpg estimated from Chrysler's new 3.6-liter V6 Pentastar engine with the 4x4 setup. These numbers put the CRD's potential total range from a full 24.7-gallon tank at right around 800 miles. Yikes.

And, get this: If we convert that European liters/100km number to U.S. figures, the Wrangler CRD achieves 28.3 mpg city and 36.2 mpg highway with the manual tranny and 3.21 axle or 25.3/32.7 with 3.73 axle, the heavier Unlimited model getting only marginally less. Those numbers are positively stratospheric compared with the gas V6's 15/19 ratings, and while they would need to be EPA certified, we're certain they'll stay fairly high up there. Range from the 22.5-gallon tank sits just below 800 miles with the two-door Wrangler and around 730 miles for the Unlimited. Isn't it bizarre that we can't get our own Toledo-built Jeeps with their most efficient and off-road-gobbling factory trim?

 

[freshforged]

.....also pointless when a "feature" adds additional failure modes to an already fragile system.

Amen indeed

 

[90243]

The most powerful version of the VM 3 liters V6 turbo diesel is the engine in Maserati Ghibli (that will not be sell in U.S.).

Power output: 271 HP @ 4000 rpm
Torque max: 570 Nm, in overboost condition 600 Nm (442 lbs ft lbs) in the range 2000 - 2600 rpm

These version was developed by FTP and VM together with supervision of Paolo Martinelli from Powertrain Director at Maserati (before he was head of Ferrari F1 team's engine department when they developed the V10).

One of the problems with diesel in U.S. is the fuel itself, there is no uniformity of the blend accross the country. In Europe instead there is a normative applied an all countries (at least the EU countries).
For esxample just take a look at the cetane number of diesel fuel in different U.S. states.

Here You find some notes about how IVECO commercial engines (FPT) will met Euro VI (RAM Promaster will use F1C engine).
http://ibb.iveco.com/Lists/Markets/Attachments/52/EURO%20VI.pdf

 

[Ramfan]

Great link. I also read somewhere on a turbo charger page that suggested that the turbo they use is somewhat small for this engine from the boost heat efficiency / performance range potential. That beyond 280 HP range it would quickly get out of its heat/efficiency range at least for a more continuous use. Ie not a 1/4 mile drag but a long hill. This would even assume the inter cooler is up to the job.

 

[guyverfanboy]

It's a shame that the Maserati Ghibli diesel won't be sold in the US. I would it will be eventually, because Audi offers the A7 & A8 in diesel.

 

[Dave Z]

It might be if we can bully the oil industry into making a standard high quality diesel fuel as MJAB wrote.

 

[ChryslerFiatfan]

The most powerful version of the VM 3 liters V6 turbo diesel is the engine in Maserati Ghibli (that will not be sell in U.S.).

Power output: 271 HP @ 4000 rpm
Torque max: 570 Nm, in overboost condition 600 Nm (442 lbs ft lbs) in the range 2000 - 2600 rpm

These version was developed by FTP and VM together with supervision of Paolo Martinelli from Powertrain Director at Maserati (before he was head of Ferrari F1 team's engine department when they developed the V10).

One of the problems with diesel in U.S. is the fuel itself, there is no uniformity of the blend accross the country. In Europe instead there is a normative applied an all countries (at least the EU countries).
For esxample just take a look at the cetane number of diesel fuel in different U.S. states.

Here You find some notes about how IVECO commercial engines (FPT) will met Euro VI (RAM Promaster will use F1C engine).
http://ibb.iveco.com/Lists/Markets/Attachments/52/EURO%20VI.pdf

Isn't it a delight to see that Europe is finally joining the clean air crusade, even if it is thirty five years late. Building on the technologies fundamentally developed by US car and truck makers, they are finally cleaning up their diesels, making the clean EU diesel more then just a propaganda point.

BTW. the USA is planning on regulations that define the cetane number. It will provide the synthetic diesel makers with a mixing market for their ptoduct.

IN only a few more years planned T2-B2 regulations will go into effect, every ICE powered vehicle will be a ZEV producing pristene air. That is better than just making the exhaust better than ambient air quality, which they now are, that cleaned the North American Air Quality to better than it ever was.

Then we can use the efforts for other problems needing addressing.

 

[AC TC]

"The 237 horsepower is, of course, fine. But it's the 406 pound-feet of torque between 1,800 and 2,800 rpm that gets our juices flowing."
Theres atleast one who have understood how diesels are working!
Problem is that common joe only looks at hp and torq as numbers and doesent understand
how to use em in real world use. Yes 237 hp looks low compared to a 290 hp pentastar but
unless your interested in full throttle / full rpm use the diesel will be stronger, much stronger.

Maybe the ecoboost or a similar turbo gas engine can have the same torque curve as the diesel but
then the fuel economy will go completly out of the window.