Allpar Forums banner
1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
40,250 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Wagoneer is not going to be at Windsor, it's STLA Frame, not Large. Good question about Warren/Sterling Heights. I suspect there are some big changes a’comin’ unless SM was unusually good at predicting the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
I know that article says they may replace Renegade with Jeepster, but Motortrend says the new all electric Jeep may use that name instead. Unless the plan is to use the same thing as a Renegade replacement and offer ICE, hybrid, and electric variants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,871 Posts
The Jeepster is smaller than Renegade.

If the next Renegade keeps the square design and offers a PHEV powertrain with some great torque, it would be a winner. The problem with the current Renegade is the lousy powertrain, so most customers are once and done. People like the design and utility, but despise the lethargic performance when passing or accelerating.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,871 Posts
My wife saw a Renegade the other day and said it’s “cute”. I said, “yeah, you don’t want that”. :LOL:
I would have bought one if the power was decent. But the rentals I have had struggle to pass dump trucks.
 

·
Jeepaholic
Joined
·
6,962 Posts
I would have bought one if the power was decent. But the rentals I have had struggle to pass dump trucks.
We already have an Encore which is insanely slow…though I must say it’s markedly improved since we replaced the turbo (amongst other things). So another snail for the fleet wouldn’t be desirable. Lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,871 Posts
We already have an Encore which is insanely slow…though I must say it’s markedly improved since we replaced the turbo (amongst other things). So another snail for the fleet wouldn’t be desirable. Lol.
Honestly, most PSA vehicles I have rented have been dogs as well. But maybe that was just fleet engines, but I am concerned they do not understand the North American need for POWER.
 

·
Jeepaholic
Joined
·
6,962 Posts
Honestly, most PSA vehicles I have rented have been dogs as well. But maybe that was just fleet engines, but I am concerned they do not understand the North American need for POWER.
Were these rentals in Europe I assume? I think they view things a bit differently as to what is acceptable power for a vehicle IMO. Hopefully when considering design for North American offerings, they’ll listen to people on the North American side of the company.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,871 Posts
Were these rentals in Europe I assume? I think they view things a bit differently as to what is acceptable power for a vehicle IMO. Hopefully when considering design for North American offerings, they’ll listen to people on the North American side of the company.
Yes, it was in Europe. What is interesting is that they are dogs in acceleration, but if you want to drive at 80+ mph on the highway, they run great and still get good fuel economy. But climbing hills they would have trouble holding speed.
 

·
Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
40,250 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes, it was in Europe. What is interesting is that they are dogs in acceleration, but if you want to drive at 80+ mph on the highway, they run great and still get good fuel economy. But climbing hills they would have trouble holding speed.
Unfavorable torque curve? once you're on the highway it's in the torque band, but starting out it could be horrible. That's been my experience with a number of cars that have tiny engines and big turbos. That class of car would be dramatically improved with hybrid setups - electric motors to get you going until the engine's at speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,871 Posts
Unfavorable torque curve? once you're on the highway it's in the torque band, but starting out it could be horrible. That's been my experience with a number of cars that have tiny engines and big turbos. That class of car would be dramatically improved with hybrid setups - electric motors to get you going until the engine's at speed.
The engines are fine holding regular speed (130 kmh) up steep grades, but trying to hold 150-160 kmh they fade out.

Yes, this is where electric motors would excel. But I fear they will make the ICE smaller and when the battery is depleted, you have a dog of a vehicle until you can charge again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HotCarNut

·
Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
40,250 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The engines are fine holding regular speed (130 kmh) up steep grades, but trying to hold 150-160 kmh they fade out.

Yes, this is where electric motors would excel. But I fear they will make the ICE smaller and when the battery is depleted, you have a dog of a vehicle until you can charge again.
Hard to make the ICE smaller than 1.0 - 1.3 liters ;) I was assuming non-plugin hybrids here. Moderately sized battery, moderately sized engine.

Not sure GSE was the massive success story we needed it to be. GME seems pretty darned good but for whatever reason production seems to remain pretty limited.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,871 Posts
Hard to make the ICE smaller than 1.0 - 1.3 liters ;) I was assuming non-plugin hybrids here. Moderately sized battery, moderately sized engine.

Not sure GSE was the massive success story we needed it to be. GME seems pretty darned good but for whatever reason production seems to remain pretty limited.
Hard to make the ICE smaller than 1.0 - 1.3 liters ;) I was assuming non-plugin hybrids here. Moderately sized battery, moderately sized engine.

Not sure GSE was the massive success story we needed it to be. GME seems pretty darned good but for whatever reason production seems to remain pretty limited.
The PSA vehicles I drove were not hybrids. ICE only. But typically 1.2-1.5 liter engines.
 

·
Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
40,250 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
One of the two slowest cars I've ever driven, and keep in mind that includes 1980s/90s Korean three-cylinders, was a Peugeot 104 whose top speed was around 70 with the windows rolled up, but since it had no a/c, around 50-55 mph in reality... (on a flat surface. Up a hill it was slower).

Side note: Absolute slowest was, if I recall correctly, a Datsun/Nissan 200SX, where you 'd floor the gas and watch the revs slowly climb before letting out the clutch and waiting to move. The five-cylinder Hummer was in there, in terms of not being able to maintain highway speed on gentle inclines. With a manual transmission shifted down to lower gear when overdrive was clearly not gonna cut it. Slant six Valiants, with their nearly 100 net horsepower and 3,000 pound weight, are not even in the running for slowest because they at least had torque.
 

·
Defender of Reality
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Wow...I'm glad I've never had to drive anything that slow or underpowered. Closest I've come were some of the rental Nissan's with the 4-cylinder/CVT combination. Initial getaway was fine but passing on the interstate was BRUTAL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,871 Posts
Wow...I'm glad I've never had to drive anything that slow or underpowered. Closest I've come were some of the rental Nissan's with the 4-cylinder/CVT combination. Initial getaway was fine but passing on the interstate was BRUTAL.
Passing on a 2 lane road with an underpowered vehicle can create pucker moments when there is oncoming traffic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
My wife saw a Renegade the other day and said it’s “cute”. I said, “yeah, you don’t want that”. :LOL:
Why do you say that I am curious ????? We own one and it has been a great little vehicle... Biggest issue is the majority of the owners who buy them don't take care of their vehicles... We are going on 3 years of ownership and it is still solid as the day we bought it gets decent fuel economy if driven correctly. The 2.4l isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Even the FWD version does extremely well in inclement weather, I've driven in 9" of snow and with the right throttle modulation it does surprisingly well. We bought because it fit our needs perfectly we wanted a little SUV with decent accommodations and room for our 2 Dogs on road trips, Is it a Wrangler Nope is it as nice as the G Cherokees is it meant to be absolutely not, But for a vehicle with decent room it isn't cramped I am 5'11. Is there room for improvement absolutely, I hope they bring the updated version which is already out in the Brazilian Market. Plus it is a Mopar product even though it is built in Italy.
 

·
Jeepaholic
Joined
·
6,962 Posts
Why do you say that I am curious ????? We own one and it has been a great little vehicle... Biggest issue is the majority of the owners who buy them don't take care of their vehicles... We are going on 3 years of ownership and it is still solid as the day we bought it gets decent fuel economy if driven correctly. The 2.4l isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Even the FWD version does extremely well in inclement weather, I've driven in 9" of snow and with the right throttle modulation it does surprisingly well. We bought because it fit our needs perfectly we wanted a little SUV with decent accommodations and room for our 2 Dogs on road trips, Is it a Wrangler Nope is it as nice as the G Cherokees is it meant to be absolutely not, But for a vehicle with decent room it isn't cramped I am 5'11. Is there room for improvement absolutely, I hope they bring the updated version which is already out in the Brazilian Market. Plus it is a Mopar product even though it is built in Italy.
I think I mentioned it in a reply to Erik above, but my wife has a Buick Encore which is pretty slow. So replacing her Encore with another slow vehicle isn’t exactly what she would want. Not to mention she’s more interested in a luxury CUV for her next vehicle, and that ain’t a Renegade (which it’s not meant to be).

Renegade isn’t a bad vehicle. I think putting a better drivetrain into it would do wonders though. Still not for us though, I’m a Wrangler/Gladiator guy and my wife prefers more luxury.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top